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Post by Chris3123 on Aug 11, 2008 21:41:28 GMT -5
How much do we know about the film, though? Besides the basics, that it's a prequel to TOS, This movie is not an all-out prequal, it cannot be based on what we know. Chekov being on the Enterprise is just one reason. There will be parts that take place before the events of TOS, but not the whole movie. The Academy is not the focus of the movie. We will see some of the characters when they were in the Academy, yes, but we'll also see everyone when they're together on the Enterprise. We might see that point in time, but we are also going to see points in time before and after that.
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Post by zdnexus on Dec 3, 2008 13:57:54 GMT -5
I don't think there ever wasthe 'Prime Directive' in TOS. The worst thing about STNG was the Prime Directive - so instead of exploring new worlds - the crew for the most time stayed on the Enterprise or had adventures in their holodeck. In TOS exploring worlds was really important, even if the people on that world were primitive. STNG may have introduced the Borg and Q but otherwise it was rubbish all the time. No exploration ever took place.
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Speed
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Post by Speed on Dec 5, 2008 0:01:31 GMT -5
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Post by Chris3123 on Dec 6, 2008 19:49:11 GMT -5
with the characters from there back in their Academy days, That is not the main time setting. Though we will see the Academy. Only part of the movie takes place before the Enterprise is launched. Leonard Nimoy will also star as Spock. That could mean a few things, he could travel to the past, or the movie could be him telling a story, to us sharing his memory. That part isn't a mystery. It's been known for months how Nimoy fits in. SPOILERS Time travel. End Spoilers.
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Speed
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Post by Speed on Dec 12, 2008 13:07:55 GMT -5
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Speed
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Post by Speed on May 7, 2009 14:59:24 GMT -5
Ok boys and girls! Today's the BIG DAY! I won't be seeing it till tomorrow, but Those of you who are seeing it tonight better get busy posting!
Also, I read a spoiler that makes me totally not want to see the film, but I'm going to anyway. Those of you who've seen the film, try and guess what has me so ticked off!
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Speed
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Post by Speed on May 9, 2009 2:15:17 GMT -5
The wait is over...
FINALLY!
Regardless of my apprehension regarding certain events in the movie, I enjoyed it. I really, really tried to hate this movie for the way they disregarded canon and the way they created an alternate reality, but ultimately, I couldn't. It was just too incredible visually. ******SPOILER ALERT******************************************************* *******************************************SPOILER ALERT!!!**************** SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*************************************************** ***********************SPOILERS AHEAD!!!********************************** Having read the "Countdown" comic books, I knew about Nero and his backstory. Also about Picard, Data, Geordi, Worf, and Spock's roles in trying to stop Nero in the late 24th/Early 25th centuries. The beginning of the film and the USS Kelvin were pretty great. Seeing Jim Kirk's birth was kind of cool, even though it wasn't the Jim Kirk we're all familiar with, thanks to Spock Prime's and Nero's interference from the future. Jim's father, George Kirk was certainly an impressive guy.
Young Spock's altercation with his classmates was a great scene. Also had a nice touch with some green Vulcan blood from Spock's busted lip. Ben Cross does an excellent job as Sarek.
The bar fight scene involving Kirk and some Starfleet Cadets was better than I thought it was going to be. Chris Pine really got his butt kicked A LOT in this movie. Zoe Saldana was much better than I expected also. There was an interesting chemistry between her and Pine. Like you can't tell if she likes him or is repulsed by him.
Captain Pike was pretty incredible. Not that whiny, angsty, Captain I remember from "The Cage."He was a really great captain in this timeline. The scene where he basically goads Kirk into joining Starfleet comes off as completely believable, given Kirk's hot-headedness. My only complaint is that he is the Captain of the Enterprise instead of Robert April, who wasn't even mentioned. (Keep thinking Alternate Reality.)
As soon as you hear Karl Urban's voice off camera, you will instantly think of DeForest Kelly. Urban's entire performance, voice, mannerisms, facial expressions, are 100% Leonard McCoy. The scene in the shuttle to Starfleet Academy is very memorable. I almost believed he WAS D. Kelly.
Winona Ryder was surprisingly convincing as Spock's Mother, Amanda. I don't agree with the plot surrounding her character, but once again, this is an alternate reality, and I suppose I'll have to deal with it.
The Kobayashi Maru simulation could have gone a bit better. I would've liked to see a scene with Kirk actually reprogramming the simulator, rather than it's final result. Also, I know this is supposed to be a young, brash, unseasoned Jim Kirk, but Pine's performance in this scene didn't remind me of Kirk at all. He was too cocky and arrogant.
When we get to the reason why the Enterprise is the only ship able to answer the distress call from Vulcan, the plot gets a little silly to me. Every single ship in Starfleet is in another sector? Come on! Assuming the Enterprise launched in the same year as the one in the original timeline the year would be 2245. The Federation would've been around for 84 years by then and would have had more than enough ships in service so that all of them would not be out of the sector. And what about Vulcan's own Starships? Where were they?
Nice touch with how Bones smuggles Jim onboard the Enterprise. Some pretty hilarious results ensue. We also see that Bones, while a competent physician, still has a little bit to learn before he becomes the CMO we've all come to expect.
Once onboard the Enterprise, things start moving at an alarmingly fast pace. Too fast, IMO. The ship itself seems right from the start to be bigger and more mazelike than any other ship we've seen on Star Trek, with the possible exception of Nero's Narada, or Shinzon's Ship from Nemesis. The Main Bridge also seems to be out of place. If I remember the shot correctly, it looks like it's where "10 Forward" should be on the Enterprise-D. It's right up front instead of on top. Maybe they changed the location to it's normal spot in a future re-fit. (Alternate Reality...LOL!)
The Warp Speed effects in the movie tend to blow you out of your seat. They really convey a sense of just how fast you're going when you're travelling Faster Than Light. There's a moment here when Sulu is jumping to Warp that is priceless.
Pike's promotion of Kirk and Spock seems to happen rather too quickly (like everything else in the film). Kirk's knowledge of the Romulan Mining Rig seems to be a bit far-fetched as well. At this point in history, no one's even SEEN a Romulan, at least not officially. (Once again, Alternate Reality.)
Captain Pike pilots the shuttle from the Enterprise to the Narada, due to the Drilling Rig knocking out transporter functions. He drops Kirk, Sulu, and Redshirt into an orbital dive to the Drilling platform. A little later, he gets a brain visitor, ala Kahn ala Ceti Alpha VI.
The dive to the Drilling Platform is pretty incredible and we get our first, and absolutely fulfilling, Red Shirt Death Scene. That guy was being an idiot and pretty much deserved it. LOL! The audience I was with were apparantly not Trek Fans because when the Red Shirt bit the big one, I cracked up laughing out loud. Everyone else looked at me like I was crazy. Sorry they didn't get the joke.
Spock's rescue of the Vulcan High Command was interesting. I completely disagree with what happened to Amanda, though. After Chekov's brilliant mid-air transport of Kirk and Sulu, you can't tell me he couldn't have gotten a lock on Amanda. And why did the transporter effects start 5 or 10 seconds before the actual transport?
The relationship between Spock and Uhura seemed completely unnecessary to me. It didn't feel forced, it just didn't seem like it made sense. There's no backstory to it, it just IS. Seems like they could've spent more time with Jim and Spock Prime.
Spock is obviously very distraught with the destruction of Vulcan. Vulcan's destruction, BTW is the reason I wanted to boycott this movie. You simply cannot destroy a founding world of the Federation. Also, this completely negates the events of Spock's Kohlinahr training in "The Motion Picture" not to mention The replacement of Spock's Katra on Mount Selaya in Star Trek III. The Bridge Crew's exile on Vulcan during Star Trek IV are now negated as well. It is also entirely believable that T'Pol (Star Trek: Enterprise) would have been alive and living out her older years on Vulcan. Was she one of the Six Billion Vulcans killed in the attack? The destruction of Vulcan is worse than the ENTIRE Xindi Arc during Season 3 of Enterprise.
Anyway's, Spock's so emotionally unhinged that when he and Kirk get into an argument about whether to go to Earth or rendezvous with the Fleet, Spock uses the Vulcan Nerve Pinch on him and throws him out the airlock! (Battlestar Galactica reference, anyone?) Thankfully, Kirk's in an escape pod.
When he wakes up, he realizes he's in an escape pod, and conveniently, the escape pod tells him his location and the location of the nearest Starfleet facility. It also tells him to stay put. He ignores this warning, climbing out of the ice crater onto the surface of Delta Vega.
For me, this part was a little too Star Warsy. I'm sure that creatures like these exist in the Trek Universe, but it was like watching the Colosseum scene from Episode 2.
Thankfully, Leonard Nimoy arrives to help bring some sanity to this whole experience. Kirk runs into a cave and is pursued by Big Scary Monster #2. Spock Prime scares it away with fire. Kinda lame, I thought.
Spock Prime is certainly surprised to see James T. Kirk standing before him. Nimoy IS Spock, so his performance here is brilliant as always. Through Spock Prime, we learn of the events of the Countdown Comics, minus the mention of any members of the crew of another ship named Enterprise. Spock and Kirk share a couple of genuinely friendly moments here, and it's really good to see Leonard in the ears one more time. Also, we learn that Nero captured Spock and marooned him on Delta Vega because it was within visual distance of Vulcan. Nero wanted him to watch as Vulcan was destroyed.
Next, we have Jim and Spock Prime travelling on foot to the Starfleet Facility. We meet a curious little guy who looks like a Midget Jem'Hadar here. Then we meet Simon Pegg's version of Montgomery Scott. Spock Prime knows who he is right away, and after a rather comical little scene regarding Scotty being hungry, we advance the plot.
Apparantly, Scotty has been sent to lonely, icy Delta Vega because he put Admiral Jonathon Archer's Prized Beagle (Porthos would've been dead many, many years by this point. I'm assuming Jon got a new one.) in a trans-warp transporter experiment, and the dog has yet to reappear. Spock Prime informs Scotty that he knows the equation and uses this knowledge to beam Kirk and Scott onboard the Enterprise while she's travelling at Warp. We finally get an explanation of how Warp Drive works when Scotty says, "Oh I never considered that it was Space itself that was moving."
Spock Prime informs Jim that once onboard the Enterprise, he must assume command. He offers insight into how to wrest control from Spock by emotionally compromising him. Spock Prime assures Jim that since he's just witnessed the destruction of Vulcan, he is definitely emotionally compromised.
Once the trans-warp beaming is over, Kirk materializes in the water reclamation facility, presumably. Scotty actually materializes in a water pipe and it's up to Jim to quickly save him before he's ground up in some sort of water processing device. Thankfully, he does. Simon Pegg brings the spirit of Scotty to these scenes with his humor. While he doesn't look like him, he definitely understands the character.
Spock views Kirk and Scotty's beam-in and sends security to bring them to the bridge. The chase scene in what is presumably Engineering, is a little too "real" for me. The bowels of the ship look like no Starfleet Vessel we've ever seen before. It's like a bunch of Short, stubby grain silos, or something. Even the engine room of the NX-01 was a nice, tidy, orderly place. This version seemed completely chaotic and was far too grand in scope, IMO.
After getting to the bridge, Scotty has a few good moments and Jim presses all the right buttons with Spock, resulting in Spock beating the living crap out of him and almost choking him to death in front of the entire senior staff. Although considering most of them are cadets, how can you really call them the senior staff. Ah...you get what I mean. LOL! Spock only lets up when Sarek shouts at him. Spock relieves himself of command and Jim assumes it, changing course from the rendezvous with the fleet, to Earth, where Nero is about to implode Earth, the same way he did Vulcan.
I think it was Chekov who had the bright idea to Warp into the Sol System and stop right behind Saturn where it's rings would mask the ship from Nero's sensors. This was one of the coolest shots of the Enterprise I've ever seen. When it came up out of that dust cloud, it was simply awesome.
Kirk and Spock get ready to beam to the Narada to rescue Captain Pike and defeat Nero, but before that, a long awaited moment in Star Trek History. It's officially made canon that Uhura's first name is NYOTA!!!! Well, at least in this Alternate Reality.
After the Beam-In, Kirk and Spock are caught in a Romulan Disruptor/Phaser battle with the Narada Crew. Spock mind melds with an unconscious Romulan and determines the location of the "Red Matter," this film's deus ex machina. Once they fight their way to the Geordi LaForge designed "Jellyfish" ship, the onboard computer recognizes "Ambassador Spock" and Spock starts to understand a few more pieces of the puzzle. Jim has no doubt that Spock can pilot it, and goes to find Captain Pike. Spock takes the Jellyfish and blasts out of the Narada to destroy the drilling platform, already ionizing the waters of San Francisco Bay.
Spock succeeds, and Jim succeeds. Spock sets the Jellyfish on a collision course with the Narada, and Scotty beams Pike, Kirk, and Spock out of harm's way. Simon Pegg did wonderfully in this scene after they all were beamed back. Nero also has a Kahn moment, shouting, "SPOCK!!! SPOCK!!!!" I laughed at this as well, but no one else in the theatre got it.
Back at the Academy, we have a meeting of the Spocks and Spock Prime gives some advice to himself while informing himself he's found a suitable location for a new Vulcan Homeworld. Kirk is given a commendation for cheating on the Kobayashi-Maru, and for saving Earth (although it was Spock who actually destroyed the drilling rig). Pike is in a wheelchair, a nice nod to TOS and the Delta Ray/Baffle Plating accident. Kirk is promoted to Captain, and relieves Admiral Pike of command of the Enterprise. Nimoy does the "Space...the Final Frontier" voiceover at the end. During the credits, they use the theme from TOS. I thought that was a great move. Unfortunately, I didn't stay till the end of the credits because I really had to pee, so if there's anything afterwards, one of you will have to let me know.
Overall, I give this a 7 out of 10. It was a good movie and I thought it was well acted, if a bit too fast paced, but ultimately, it wasn't MY Enterprise. They might as well have made a movie about the Mirror Universe. I would've enjoyed that a lot more. This whole Alternate reality thing left me not really caring about the main characters as much because I knew they wouldn't go on to become the Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc, that I know and love. They will probably not have any of the same adventures as the original universe because the timing is wrong. Spock served with Pike onboard the Enterprise for at least 11 years before Kirk took command, not to mention Robert April took her on her first 5 year mission. The fact that they've thrown canon out the window (Riverside, Iowa Shipyards?!?!?! That's supposed to be San Francisco Shipyards!!!) and given Kirk command of the Enterprise on it's Maiden Voyage is just preposterous.
Overall, it was entertaining, but ultimately, it doesn't matter because it's an alternate reality. And poor Spock Prime has to live in an alternate past for the rest of his life. Maybe he'lll devise some way home, but wouldn't it just be the future of the alternate reality? Not the original timeline where Romulus is destroyed, but Vulcan still exists?
If this has me asking so many questions, imagine what's going to happen at Memory Alpha!!!! OH BOY!!! =)
One final note, I missed James Cawley, Chris Doohan, and the Tribble. Guess I'll have to wait for the DVD.
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Post by Kapt~`'- on May 9, 2009 20:40:56 GMT -5
I saw it yesterday and I LOVED it!!! Well done. Really well done. They also did a great job of explaining the differences
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Speed
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Post by Speed on May 11, 2009 1:07:10 GMT -5
I went to see it again tonight, and after a second viewing, I'm taking back what I said. I didn't like this film. Here's why:
It just doesn't matter. The only thing tying it to the official Trek Universe is old Spock. Beyond him, the whole thing is wrong. Nothing fits where it's supposed to in the timeline, and the circumstances of the crew getting together are beyond preposterous.
Also, the many "coincidences" and "similarities" to the other series and other movies translate to me as the writers' inability to come up with anything original. They could have had "in-jokes" for us fans and still have done something better than a Ceti Eel like they put in Chekov's head. Not to mention all the other similarities.
While the movie was entertaining and the actors and actresses did a fine job, I just can't ignore the fact that canon has been thrown out the window. I know it's an Alternate Reality, and knowing that doesn't make it any better. Know it is an Alternate Reality just makes me say, "Oh, it's an alternate reality. It doesn't matter then."
I know a few years ago when all this started getting posted here I was one of the people who said to keep an open mind and I was sure it would turn our okay. Well, after all my cheerleading and open-mindedness, I just can't get past the "Alternate Reality" thing. I think it was a cheap cop-out on the part of the writers to make a great story that fit within established canon. I don't think they were up to the task. Maybe after watching it a third time, it will grow on me. Thank goodness I can "appropriate" it instead of having to pay $8.50 again.
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Post by Chris3123 on May 11, 2009 19:32:27 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I didn't stay till the end of the credits because I really had to pee, so if there's anything afterwards, one of you will have to let me know. Just the dedications to Gene and Majel. How does the original reality "matter" any more than this one? The original is no more "real" than this new one. They are both equally fictional. I went to see it again tonight, and after a second viewing, I'm taking back what I said. I didn't like this film. Here's why: It just doesn't matter. The only thing tying it to the official Trek Universe is old Spock. Beyond him, the whole thing is wrong. Nothing fits where it's supposed to in the timeline, Ok, but why do these above points cause you to dislike the film? Certainly, I can understand these points causing one to believe that it doesn't fit with the rest of Trek, but how do they make you dislike the movie altogether? They have nothing to do with the quality of the movie itself. Heck, I agree with your points, but the only one of your conclusions I get from them is that the movie doesn't fit with the rest of Trek. I still enjoyed the movie, because none of those points affect the quality of the movie. This though seemed to be a criticism of the movie itself. Again, the original reality doesn't "matter" any more than this one. It's all equally fictional.
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Speed
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Post by Speed on May 13, 2009 4:35:15 GMT -5
Yes, you're right. It's all equally fictional, and I suppose what I meant to say overall is that I don't like the Alternate Reality. The movie, even though I disagreed with the plot devices, was pretty entertaining. I can see how people who have no idea about Star Trek can watch this movie and say, "WOW! I didn't know Star Trek was so cool!" But for an old Trekkie like myself, it's quite a jagged little pill to swallow.
As for what I meant about the original timeline mattering more than the alternate one, let me try to explain. There are 5 (6 if you count TAS) different Trek series that together have probably around 700 hours of video. (I didn't feel like looking up the exact number of hours of total ST series. Bear with me.) Beyond that, there are 10 movies that fit into the established timeline. All this stuff comprises "canon." All the characters that have existed in this timeline, from Zephram Cochrane and Henry Archer, to the Crew of the NX-01, to Robert April, Captain Pike, Jim, Spock, Bones, Jean-Luc, Beverly, Deanna, Will, Data, Sisko, Dax, Worf, Chief O'Brien, Chakotay, Seven, EMH, Kim, Paris, Neelix, Q, etc, and some of their most important adventures are documented within this specific timeline. Sure we've had a Mirror Universe episode every now and then, but for the most part, all events take place in a single continuity. Even most time travel episodes resolve themselves and preserve the timeline by the time the show's over.
It seems to be that after all this "future history" has been written, it's a shame to see JJ Abrams and company take an established and beloved franchise and turn it into some gigantic Hollywood cash cow/spectacle that isn't what Star Trek is about at all. He used only the aspects he thought would keep die hard fans satisfied, while changing all sorts of other aspects just to put together something that cater to people who've never watched Trek before.
Was this Paramount's goal? Yes. They're in it to make money. They want to reviatlize the franchise and put some fresh blood into it. Am I upset with that? No. I'm glad the film is doing so well. I'm glad Star Trek has become a popular current event topic. What I'm upset about is the fact that Abrams took such rich, vibrant characters and decided, "Well, all this backstory and canon is too much for me. Let's throw it out the window so I don't have to do any work. I'll just come up with something flashy from scratch then figure out how to tie it into continuity later." I think he could've had his writers come up with a great story that fit into established canon. He certainly had the budget.
When this movie was first announced, I had no idea they'd be using an alternate reality for the story. I was excited when I first heard about this. I thought, "ALRIGHT! Finally! We're going to see how Kirk, Spock, McCoy and all the rest actually met and became the crew we've grown to love over the years."
Instead of seeing how they all got together, we see the same characters, but not the same versions that we went on to watch in TOS and the first 6/7 movies. They're versions of the characters that will not go on to face the same missions and adventures as the ones we know. Their universe has taken a different path, and after watching all of Enterprise, TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, I just don't really care what happens in an alternate reality. It's not the characters I know. It's someone different. They've had different life experiences that make them different from the Prime Universe characters.
I guess what it boils down to is this. I wanted a movie that showed how "my" Enterprise crew got together. Not how a slightly different version of the same people got together. Also, I'm still upset about Romulus being destroyed in the Prime Universe. The whole "Reunification" aspect with Spock trying to reunite the Romulan and Vulcan peoples was probably going to get very interesting. Also, I'm upset with the destruction of Vulcan. Alternate Reality or not, I have a hard time believing it would be so easy to destroy a founding world of the Federation. Of course I've already stated this in previous posts.
Bottom line: I wanted to see the crew from the Prime Universe get together, and what I got was like looking through a mirror, not quite as darkly.
I hope I've been able to clear up a bit of what I was trying to say. Any comments or questions are welcome, as always. I don't expect anyone to agree completely with me, I just hope no one gets too upset with my opinion. It's not my intention to start any kind of internet drama. As I said before, there were certain aspects of the film I enjoyed, and I thought the actors did great jobs, I just wish Abrams, Kurtzmann, and Orci could've stayed in the Prime Universe.
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Speed
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Post by Speed on May 13, 2009 20:57:01 GMT -5
I just thought of something. The destruction of Vulcan is going to wreak havok when just about ANY Vulcan enters their Ponn-Farr Cycle.
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Post by Kapt~`'- on May 15, 2009 1:18:55 GMT -5
I just thought of something. The destruction of Vulcan is going to wreak havok when just about ANY Vulcan enters their Ponn-Farr Cycle. They can still go to Risa? ;D I watched this movie with an open mind. I purposefully tried not to find out too much about it once I learned a little bit as a lifetime trekkie? I really have no complaints. I've always said, Star Trek is good even when it's bad. While I wish they would have done something after Nemesis they didn't. So I'll take what I can get. It was entertaining and that's really all that matters to me So until the DVD comes out, and the second movie comes out after that. I'm content I got to see it. When the DVD comes out and I've seen it a few hundred times I may get tired of it But I doubt it ;D
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Athene♥
Ensign
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Post by Athene♥ on May 18, 2009 11:35:45 GMT -5
I was a bit skeptical at first when I saw the movie. I've seen too many a remake that were poorly done. This movie literally blew me away! ;D I've been a fan of Star Trek TOS for a long time... I think they portrayed the characters well... I'm thinking about seeing this movie again... I tend to do that with movies that I really enjoy.
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Post by Kapt~`'- on May 19, 2009 1:15:28 GMT -5
I'd like to see it again, but right now my wallet won't let me
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