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Post by Phantomb on Dec 22, 2004 11:40:11 GMT -5
id go with vader but if vader faced maul as ankin id go for maul since anakin was 2 reckless just like he was in the hangar in II
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Orpheus
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Post by Orpheus on Dec 22, 2004 13:11:07 GMT -5
I'm going against the grain here, but I think that the answer is Maul.
Just look at each of the Darth's record.
Vader vs obi, vader won but obi gave himself up. Vader vs Luke1, Vader won, but Luke didnt know what he was doing. Vader vs Luke 2, Luke, who wasnt a very skilled swordsman took out Vader.
I think this goes to show that Vader himself isnt that great a swordsman. Maul on the other hand, while we only saw one of his deuls, he killed on jedi who was fighting his hardest, while holding off anoher jedi completely.
I say that after looking at these facts, Maul seems to be the better swordsman, especially if you allow him to have his two bladed saber.
So I think that if it was an all out lightsaber deul with limited force powers, Maul would win. But if it was a deul with all force powers, Vader would win because he would just keep on defence and choke maul.
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Post by Phantomb on Dec 22, 2004 14:04:35 GMT -5
thats cos luke was the good guy and he couldnt die
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Phenom
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Post by Phenom on Dec 22, 2004 18:46:28 GMT -5
Vader, He is both a former Jedi and a kick butt dude. He was after all trained by Obi Wan Keniobi, who trained Luke Skywalker. Maul was a good character but he played in only one film and was killed by a Jedi Aprentence (at the time).
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Post by Dillson on Dec 22, 2004 19:24:06 GMT -5
Wait until Episode III before you decide whether Vader is a good swordsmen or not.
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Phenom
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Post by Phenom on Dec 22, 2004 20:32:01 GMT -5
Wait until Episode III before you decide whether Vader is a good swordsmen or not. What do you mean?
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Post by Dillson on Dec 22, 2004 21:11:20 GMT -5
I was responding to Orpheus' comments about Vader being an average swordsman.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Dec 24, 2004 14:39:09 GMT -5
I was responding to Orpheus' comments about Vader being an average swordsman. You don't think he is? He defeated Luke Skywalker once, and nearly defeated him in thier last battle. He only fell in Episode 2, when Yoda stepped in, as he was just still an apprentise, taking on a master Sith. History already tells he defeated Obi-Wan twice, even if the 2nd time was Obi-Wan loosing on purpose.
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Post by Dillson on Dec 24, 2004 18:38:08 GMT -5
No no, I think Vader is a great swordsman. I think the fact that he wiped out almost all the Jedi tells you a lot about his capabilities. He didn't fight as spectularly as someone like Darth Maul or Obi-Wan because the fighting technique and technology wasn't there thirty years ago. I think that the 'new' Vader, ie Anakin will fight much more ferociously.
This is from Star Wars.com
How does one quantify fighting prowess, and does such a quantity have any practical value? When Stunt Coordinator and Sword Master Nick Gillard sets down to script a lightsaber duel, he needs to have some guage as to how competent the combatants are. On equal-footing, such ranking could easily determine the victor. Star Wars duels, however, rarely occur on equal footing or level ground.
"The fighting has evolved in these last three movies considerably," says Gillard. "George Lucas works on a system of levels. So, on The Phantom Menace Obi-Wan would have been like a level six or seven. Now that we're on Episode III he's actually a level eight. When you move up the levels, it affects the style of fighting."
The level is not necessarily an indication of the performer's talent, but it takes a truly gifted and physically skilled actor to play a powerful Jedi combatant. "Hayden Christensen is one of the best there is," says Gillard. "I've seen hundreds of sword fighters, people who do it for a living, and he leaves them all in his wake. His style has changed a bit since Episode II, when he was only a level seven. On this he's a level nine."
Also a factor in Gillard's development is backstory of the Jedi warriors. The training lineage does show up in the crafting of duels and action. "There's a line of training through Darth Tyranus and Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Anakin. You can follow that line, and there's an aggressive fault in that line. Mace isn't of that line, and that allows you to give him unique talents."
For the curious, Gillard does not reveal any Jedi who has achieved level ten. The highest is nine, occupied by a small number of capable sword masters, including Yoda and Darth Sidious. At so high a ranking, it comes down to individual fighting styles as well as the circumstances of the surroundings that make a difference.
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Orpheus
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Post by Orpheus on Dec 27, 2004 17:47:06 GMT -5
I agree that vader would have been shown to have been a much better swordsman if the technology was there during the 70s-80s but it wasnt and so he isnt.
I dont see Vader being able to hold off both jedi Qui and Obi at all. If they were to fight I see vader getting owned.
I think that we could make the assumption that Vader actually lost some deuling prowess by the time of the OT because he had no need for it.
I think that Vader himself was a rusty swordsman, but older ani was probably an excellent swordsman.
But the question was about vader, and from the question I thought we were talking the OT vader. So again I say Maul wins.
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Orpheus
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Post by Orpheus on Dec 27, 2004 17:49:23 GMT -5
I personally see Maul as the best swordsman in the SW universe short of Yoda. Mace might be able to defeat maul, but i'm not sure seeing as they would both be using style 7 and maul would have the better saber.
In any case a lightsaber duel with vader and mace I think would be worth watching.
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Post by Mandalore on Jan 26, 2005 19:49:14 GMT -5
I say Mauls a much beter fighter then vader
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Jan 27, 2005 6:19:58 GMT -5
I say Mauls a much beter fighter then vader Only by movie technology. If Maul was so good, how was it he was defeated by 1 (or two if you wish) Jedi, yet Darth Vader hunted down and basically made the Jedi all but extinct. He was only defeated by Luke, because Luke was his son, with all of his genetic strengths, plus more. In any event, welcome to Temporal Reality!!
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Orpheus
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Post by Orpheus on Jan 27, 2005 12:40:53 GMT -5
Only by movie technology. If Maul was so good, how was it he was defeated by 1 (or two if you wish) Jedi, yet Darth Vader hunted down and basically made the Jedi all but extinct. He was only defeated by Luke, because Luke was his son, with all of his genetic strengths, plus more. In any event, welcome to Temporal Reality!! Maul did defeat both of them, but he was being stupid and wanted to rub in his victory a little. That's the only reason that he didnt just force push obi the rest of the way into the pit. Maul defeated obi in the lightsaber battle. Obi suprised Maul. I think that Maul would be smart enough not to do something like that when he was fighting a master. Look at Qui, he didnt drag out qui's death. He dragged out obi's because obi was an apprentice.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Jan 28, 2005 7:10:53 GMT -5
Maul did defeat both of them, but he was being stupid and wanted to rub in his victory a little. That's the only reason that he didnt just force push obi the rest of the way into the pit. Maul defeated obi in the lightsaber battle. Obi suprised Maul. I think that Maul would be smart enough not to do something like that when he was fighting a master. Look at Qui, he didnt drag out qui's death. He dragged out obi's because obi was an apprentice. Good point! But I still feel Vader would have destroyed Maul. But then again the old argument could be brought up that Vader's swardsmenship skills were rusy compaired to Mauls, since it has been some time since Vader was involved in a Saber duel with anotehr Jedi of equal strangth.
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