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Post by theartak on May 30, 2005 17:51:25 GMT -5
Okay, so, out of curiosity...it was supposed to be revealed who ordered the clone army in the first place in Ep III, but either it wasn't directly, or I missed it.
I have theories, but I wonder if it was revealed and I missed it...anyone?
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Mutantlavalamp
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Post by Mutantlavalamp on May 30, 2005 18:43:41 GMT -5
Didn't they say that in Episode II though? It was some Jedi...
Or was that just the name that was used by the person that actually ordered the army?
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Post by theartak on May 30, 2005 19:19:39 GMT -5
I think it was a fake name...personally, I'm laying bets on Dooku, believe it or not.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on May 30, 2005 19:34:04 GMT -5
Well, Master Syphadias (sp) in Episode II was of a Jedi Obi-Wan had known, because he told the Kamino's he was dead, "killed almost 10 years ago".
Now whether or not that Jedi really ordered the clone Army, or whether or not is was in fact Count Dooku is left open to debate, as they never explained who Syphadias was, or why he secretly ordered a grand army of the Republic.
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on May 30, 2005 23:18:28 GMT -5
I always thought it was Qui Gonn. Sine there were ten years petween Episode I and Eipsode II and the one who ordered it was dead for ten years (it could also be Maul, too, but i doubt it).
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Post by theartak on May 31, 2005 1:05:59 GMT -5
Here's why I think that the person who ordered them was either Dooku or Palpatine (Sidious).
1) The Clones were clearly created to provide the Republic with a massive army, pronto. It's fairly clear that most of the Jedi were not keen to start a war, and so why order a clone army when you don't want a war? And, as we know now, there being a war allowed for Palpatine to assume emergency power and overstay his mandate.
2) Whoever ordered them had to be a force-sensitive of great skill and power, because they were able to alter the Jedi archive, as shown in Episode II. They removed the location of Kamino from the archives, and furthermore removed all traces of their intrusion. Although it's circumstantial, this is why I favor Dooku over Palpatine...Dooku was a Jedi. He could have gotten into that archive a lot easier than Palpatine, and with the right prodding, done the same thing. This also begs the question of "If a Jedi ordered the clones, why didn't the council know about it, and why remove it from your own archives if they were to be used by the Jedi later?"
3) "Order 66." I'm pretty sure that was programmed into the clones (think back to Kamino, they were growth accelerated, and programmed for their jobs) for each and every one of them to know about. Call it a haunch, but I'm pretty sure a Jedi would not include an order in the requested 'programming' (if you will) to remove all other Jedi. And how else would Palpatine have known of it?
Having the clones around certainly didn't benefit the Jedi, who didn't want the war in the first place, and only accepted them at the behest of the Republic.
Just my thoughts on the issue.
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on May 31, 2005 3:44:21 GMT -5
Remember from Phantom Menace though that the Jedi Council did not like a lot of the Qui Gonn did, which is why he never was accepted into the council. Plus Obi Wan obviously knew about the General, and didn't seem to think he was evil.
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Post by Ðreamreaver on May 31, 2005 8:27:32 GMT -5
I agree with Ar'tak. To me it is just plain obvious that it was Dooku and Palpatine. No jedi would order an army for the reasons that Ar'tak specified. While Qui-Gon was a bit of a renegade, the order of the clone army was obviously a large part in Palpatine's plan to take over the Republic.
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on May 31, 2005 14:53:08 GMT -5
I agree with Ar'tak. To me it is just plain obvious that it was Dooku and Palpatine. No jedi would order an army for the reasons that Ar'tak specified. While Qui-Gon was a bit of a renegade, the order of the clone army was obviously a large part in Palpatine's plan to take over the Republic. How do we know that Palpatine didn't tell Qui Gonn to order the army? I am assuming that he was in high regards in the Senate because he was sent as a negotiator at the beginning of Phantom Menace. Maybe this association is what is keeping Qui Gonn from the Council. Because I can't ignore the fact that Obi Wan recognized the guy's name and didn't seem concerned by it, but rather accepted the army. EDIT: I was somewhat expecting an "I am your father" twist in RotS, and at the top of my suspicions was that Qui Gonn would be revealed as being evil afterall.
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Post by theartak on May 31, 2005 15:00:44 GMT -5
I agree with Ar'tak. To me it is just plain obvious that it was Dooku and Palpatine. No jedi would order an army for the reasons that Ar'tak specified. While Qui-Gon was a bit of a renegade, the order of the clone army was obviously a large part in Palpatine's plan to take over the Republic. How do we know that Palpatine didn't tell Qui Gonn to order the army? I am assuming that he was in high regards in the Senate because he was sent as a negotiator at the beginning of Phantom Menace. Maybe this association is what is keeping Qui Gonn from the Council. Because I can't ignore the fact that Obi Wan recognized the guy's name and didn't seem concerned by it, but rather accepted the army. EDIT: I was somewhat expecting an "I am your father" twist in RotS, and at the top of my suspicions was that Qui Gonn would be revealed as being evil afterall. Given the rather...ahem...simple overall plot structure when it comes down to it, I think you're looking into it too much on that one. Yeah, I know, odd statement coming from me. And remember that the council wasn't as complacent as Obi-wan was with the name.
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Post by Ðreamreaver on May 31, 2005 15:32:57 GMT -5
I agree with Ar'tak. I think you may be reading too much into it, FL. Also keep in mind that while Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan were sent in Episode I, Palpatine was merely a senator at that time. Vallorum was the Supreme Chancellor when the two were sent to Naboo. It wasn't until after the return to Coruscant that Palpatine convinced Padme to vote no-confidence and recommend Palpatine replace Vallorum.
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Post by yitz on Jun 1, 2005 5:29:28 GMT -5
umm doesn't Jango say (AOTC) he was hired by 'some bloke named Tyranus' -- this means that Dooku was at least responsible for the choice of the cloning source material if he not for the whole clone army. Since he was called Darth Tyranus at the end of ATOC I think it was clear from ep2, what was ep3 going to clear up?
A better question is why would the Jedi not disuade the use of a clone army created by someone who most likely was directly related to the opposition. (Their main lead--namely Jengo was an employee of Dooku; even if they didn't know that Dooku == Tyranus)
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Post by theartak on Jun 1, 2005 12:15:23 GMT -5
Two problems with your theory on that last part. First, the only person who knew about the whole affair was Kenobi, and when the Jedi had to make the decision to actually use the army--something which to that point they had been arguing against, and if you notice, they were supporting the cause of the pacifists, led by Padme--he was imprisoned on Geonosis. Also, notice that the Jedi only accepted the army as a backup to their own forces...it was a sort of fatalistic measure to a large extent. It is a truth that without the clone armies, Geonosis would have turned out much differently. But, as Yoda made clear at the end of the movie, acceptance of the clone armies constituted a huge failure for the Republic.
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Post by talon on Sept 23, 2005 7:52:06 GMT -5
do you think they were bought with a creditcard???
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zull52
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Post by zull52 on Sept 23, 2005 11:27:14 GMT -5
heres what i have heard: sifo-dyas was a real jedi master and he orded the clones. tyranus killed him afterwards tho, and tyrannus chose jango for the donor. palpatine ordered dooku to do that because it was his plan to put the republic into conflict and it would make the jedi weak. all part oif a mastermind plan.....
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