First Kid in Space
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I heard that you found out about our Mars Headquarters... so I'm coming to get you!
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Post by First Kid in Space on Jan 6, 2007 14:45:40 GMT -5
I've been thinking... If you let's say went to a shop and you forget to lock your bike, and when you came back your bike was stolen. So you travel back in time and you remember the problem and you lock your bike. Then you get back to your normal time.
Here's the question: If your bike is now not stolen, then what was the point of going back in time then?
My answer: Well, if you went back and time and after I lock my bike I might look up in the sky and do something stupid like jumping and then I go back to the normal time.
Replies....
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xkamelx
Global Moderator
Check Those Corners
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Post by xkamelx on Jan 9, 2007 17:05:42 GMT -5
I've been thinking... If you let's say went to a shop and you forget to lock your bike, and when you came back your bike was stolen. So you travel back in time and you remember the problem and you lock your bike. Then you get back to your normal time. Here's the question: If your bike is now not stolen, then what was the point of going back in time then? My answer: Well, if you went back and time and after I lock my bike I might look up in the sky and do something stupid like jumping and then I go back to the normal time. Replies.... What you're describing is paradox, an impossible situation which causes much debate among the time travel subject. The only way around this paradox, since if you really did this, then you did the impossible, is if we are in one multi verse among an infinite number of parallel universes. For every possible outcome of a situation, and new parallel universe branches off from our own, so when you travel back and lock up your bike, you're creating a new time line, a time line you return to where your bike was not stolen. However, while you're in this new time line with your bike, there will still exist a time line in another dimension where your bike was stolen.
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Tobbles
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Pawn Terminator "I'll be back!"
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Post by Tobbles on Jan 10, 2007 9:33:02 GMT -5
I've been thinking... If you let's say went to a shop and you forget to lock your bike, and when you came back your bike was stolen. So you travel back in time and you remember the problem and you lock your bike. Then you get back to your normal time. Here's the question: If your bike is now not stolen, then what was the point of going back in time then? My answer: Well, if you went back and time and after I lock my bike I might look up in the sky and do something stupid like jumping and then I go back to the normal time. Replies.... What you're describing is paradox, an impossible situation which causes much debate among the time travel subject. The only way around this paradox, since if you really did this, then you did the impossible, is if we are in one multi verse among an infinite number of parallel universes. For every possible outcome of a situation, and new parallel universe branches off from our own, so when you travel back and lock up your bike, you're creating a new time line, a time line you return to where your bike was not stolen. However, while you're in this new time line with your bike, there will still exist a time line in another dimension where your bike was stolen. xkamelx what you've said reminds me so much of Back to the Future Part II.
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Post by zdnexus on Jan 11, 2007 16:12:29 GMT -5
Considering time travel, first of all there are somethings to consider - it is not simply travelling back in time it is also about travelling through space, because the Earth is never in the same position in space on any given time - a time traveller would have to be in a space ship to travel back to the time and place he wants to be in. There is one possibility of travelling in time without a space ship would be travel to an alternate universe which is not in sync with our time - so I could actually go kill ones own grand parents so in the 'future' of that universe I would not exist, but I would never know that because, the future of that universe would be the time when I travelled back in time which would be a long time agoI probably would have forgotten what I had done.
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Kmylove
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Being The One is just like being in love
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Post by Kmylove on Jan 12, 2007 2:29:19 GMT -5
What you're describing is paradox, an impossible situation which causes much debate among the time travel subject. The only way around this paradox, since if you really did this, then you did the impossible, is if we are in one multi verse among an infinite number of parallel universes. For every possible outcome of a situation, and new parallel universe branches off from our own, so when you travel back and lock up your bike, you're creating a new time line, a time line you return to where your bike was not stolen. However, while you're in this new time line with your bike, there will still exist a time line in another dimension where your bike was stolen. This reminds me of Il Mare: although you manage to change the past, there will still be a parallel time where nothing has changed. I have always wished to turn back time sometimes, to mend mistakes. It would be great if you could do it and have only one timeline, so your future changes. Yet, it might have serious consequences. In the case writerrobert680 mentioned: let's say you go back and lock your bike and then it doesn't get stolen. But what if this minor fact will have tragic consequences? Maybe your bike doesn't get stolen so you ride it home and have an accident and die. Things happen for a purpose so changing them might cause a lot of trouble.
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xkamelx
Global Moderator
Check Those Corners
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Post by xkamelx on Jan 12, 2007 4:19:06 GMT -5
What you're describing is paradox, an impossible situation which causes much debate among the time travel subject. The only way around this paradox, since if you really did this, then you did the impossible, is if we are in one multi verse among an infinite number of parallel universes. For every possible outcome of a situation, and new parallel universe branches off from our own, so when you travel back and lock up your bike, you're creating a new time line, a time line you return to where your bike was not stolen. However, while you're in this new time line with your bike, there will still exist a time line in another dimension where your bike was stolen. xkamelx what you've said reminds me so much of Back to the Future Part II. Back to the Future, like Star Trek, is full of causality loops & paradox's. For example in BTTF 2, old Biff travels back to 1955 to give teenage Biff the Almanac. The result is the screwed up 1985. Now, imagine that Marty never went back to 1955 the second time to get the Almanac, the Biff from 1985 would stay rich, the future would be very different from the future we saw, Marty, Jennifer and Doc would not have shown up, so old Biff would not have had the opportunity to go back to 1955 to give his teenage self the almanac from the future. That's the paradox if we're dealing with only one dimension. The causality loop is the fact for any of part 2's messed up 1985 to happen, Marty HAS to retrieve the almanac from Biff in 1955. By doing so, and restoring the 1985 timeline, Marty set into events a causality loop that may last for eternity, the same events happening over and over, old Biff going back to make young Biff rich, Marty seeing the messed up 1985, then going back to steal the almanac, and it happens over and over and over again. Imagine this, next week, I invent the first time machine, because I opened up my safe and found the blue prints for one from my future self? So I build one, and I never go back to give myself the plans - paradox, but if I do go back to give myself the plans, I've participated in a causality loop, one that may have went full circle 6,000,000,000,000 times before, and may go on for infinity. An original timeline would have had to of existed where I invented it on my own, then I changed the past by giving myself the plans, and started the loop. These loops are consistent through out the Terminator movies, Back to the Future, Star Trek, etc. Here's some good threads that covered some of that: Messing With Temporal Physics - Star Trek Voyager------- I can't seem to find the Terminator thread. If I remember, we went into great detail debating the time travel theories of those movies. What you're describing is paradox, an impossible situation which causes much debate among the time travel subject. The only way around this paradox, since if you really did this, then you did the impossible, is if we are in one multi verse among an infinite number of parallel universes. For every possible outcome of a situation, and new parallel universe branches off from our own, so when you travel back and lock up your bike, you're creating a new time line, a time line you return to where your bike was not stolen. However, while you're in this new time line with your bike, there will still exist a time line in another dimension where your bike was stolen. This reminds me of Il Mare: although you manage to change the past, there will still be a parallel time where nothing has changed. I have always wished to turn back time sometimes, to mend mistakes. It would be great if you could do it and have only one timeline, so your future changes. Yet, it might have serious consequences. In the case writerrobert680 mentioned: let's say you go back and lock your bike and then it doesn't get stolen. But what if this minor fact will have tragic consequences? Maybe your bike doesn't get stolen so you ride it home and have an accident and die. Things happen for a purpose so changing them might cause a lot of trouble. And that reminds me of the old Author C Clarke story about time travelers to the pre-historic past killing a single butterfly, that altered all of evolution. As a result when they returned to their present, everything had gone wrong, all human and human technology was non-existent, but instead a world of jungles, and strange, dangerous animals.
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Kmylove
Admiral
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Being The One is just like being in love
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Post by Kmylove on Jan 12, 2007 9:18:11 GMT -5
And that reminds me of the old Author C Clarke story about time travelers to the pre-historic past killing a single butterfly, that altered all of evolution. As a result when they returned to their present, everything had gone wrong, all human and human technology was non-existent, but instead a world of jungles, and strange, dangerous animals. I think it was also made into a movie because it sounds really familiar. The question of timelines in Back to the Future makes my head spin. They can be very confusing if you start to analize to implications of each time travel they make
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xkamelx
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Check Those Corners
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Post by xkamelx on Jan 14, 2007 6:52:34 GMT -5
If they did make it into a movie, I'd really like to see it.
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Post by LinksFan on Jan 25, 2007 14:51:00 GMT -5
This really all depends on whether you believe there is just one timeline, and so travelling back in time, you are altering that one, or if there are many timelines, and by going back you are just creating a branch.
In the first example, there would be a paradox. You go back in time to lock your bike so it isn't stolen. By doing this, there is no need to go back and lock your bike, meaning you don't. Through your inaction, the bike is stolen. So, you have to go back and lock your bike to prevent it being stolen. Thus, there is no need to go back, and so, the bike is stolen AND so on.
In the second theory, you go back to lock your bike, thus creating a branch in the timeline where the bike is not in fact stolen. However, there is another timeline in which the bike is stolen.
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alyeska
Jr Lieutenant
What exactly is going on?
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Post by alyeska on Jul 2, 2007 19:04:36 GMT -5
Time travel is confusing. There could be one timeline, or many. If I had to study time travel and everything related to time travel, I'd get confused.
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Oliver
Admiral
Shine On You Temporal Diamond
I've been walking for ages, yet I haven't moved a smegging inch!
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Post by Oliver on Aug 28, 2008 22:48:59 GMT -5
I want to post in this thread, but I don't know where to begin
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Bones
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The Last Cylon
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Post by Bones on Aug 29, 2008 3:27:13 GMT -5
It makes my head spin just reading Myke's BTTF2 antidotes. Though I'd love to find that terminator thread.
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icemitten
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Post by icemitten on Aug 31, 2008 11:17:05 GMT -5
Timetravel.. Immortality.. the one enemy we haven't conquered yet: time. I think everyone'd go back if we could. Just to change a couple of details, make sure we don't do certain things or meet certain people.. (I know I would!) But as said before, everything happens for a reason. This reminds me of "the sound of thunder", that movie in which they've created a wormhole to the dinosaur-time. They kill a dinosaur right before it would be hit by hot lava from a vulcano: sort of safe. Until one time, one of them comes back from the safari with a dead butterfly on the sole of his shoe. ..and because that one butterfly got killed, it could not complete its cycle of fertilising flowers etc, and the whole future changes, and comes over them in waves..
But even the dinosaur-safari changes: the dinosaur is already dead before they get there, though they set the timer correctly..
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Oliver
Admiral
Shine On You Temporal Diamond
I've been walking for ages, yet I haven't moved a smegging inch!
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Post by Oliver on Sept 15, 2008 22:43:26 GMT -5
In terms of time travel, the way I always see it is impossible. Basically, think of the butterfly effect (even the tiniest flap of a butterflies wings can change the world i.e. cause a hurricane etc). People always point out if you go back in time and change something, the present will be altered, e.g. if you killed your parents, you would cease to exist. But put it this way. If you travel backwards in time, something now has to occupy the space in time you did before you travelled. What would take its place? Air? Dust? A black hole? Think about the universe. The universe is "full" right? Full in that there is something filling every space. Air. Stars. Particles. Millions of tiny particles. If your body, which occupies a small space in the universe was to dissapear, it would be like taking a support beam out of a building. Collapse. And then you have to take into account the fact that the point in the past where you travelled to, your body now occupies that. All the particles that origionally occupied that are going to be pushed outwards i.e. the butterfly effect. Your body would push all the air particles away, and this could cause all time as we know it stopping instantaneously and every particle in your body exploding at the speed of light! (Total protonic reversal)
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Post by Master Cygnus on Sept 16, 2008 15:12:34 GMT -5
I'm new here but bare with me. Time travel is possible in the presence of a singularity... Mass creates gravity as it warps the fabric of Space-Time... Black Holes warp it exponentially... But when matter draws closer to the Event Horizon, it orbits the singularity at the speed of light and the fabric twists into a complete circle. When this happens, it folds over onto itself and can occupy multiple places in space at the same time. This also means it can occupy multiple times in the same space!
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