Kmylove
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Post by Kmylove on Aug 21, 2008 14:25:30 GMT -5
But the thing about prophecy and all that, is, if there's a prophecy that a person will come and save the world, why is everyone always in hysterics? The "prophecies" always foretell that someone will come and save the world, so, why does anybody worry? The future has already been written. Probably they worried that the machines would try and stop it. Great question though.
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Oliver
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Post by Oliver on Aug 25, 2008 22:47:21 GMT -5
Yeah, but of course the machines would try stop it, but according to the prophecy the machines would fail. The machines would be written in the prophecy too, otherwise there wouldn't be a world to save. Ah well.
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Kmylove
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Post by Kmylove on Aug 26, 2008 3:28:18 GMT -5
Yeah, but of course the machines would try stop it, but according to the prophecy the machines would fail. The machines would be written in the prophecy too, otherwise there wouldn't be a world to save. Ah well. I need some time to think this over
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Oliver
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Post by Oliver on Aug 27, 2008 3:16:22 GMT -5
Muwahahaha *rubs hands together evily and turns head down so it gets that slight "evil" shadow over half of it* I have succeeded in melting your brain
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Kmylove
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Being The One is just like being in love
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Post by Kmylove on Aug 27, 2008 11:44:38 GMT -5
Muwahahaha *rubs hands together evily and turns head down so it gets that slight "evil" shadow over half of it* I have succeeded in melting your brain Yes, you have *hands award* I think everyone was so desperate about finding the One, because the Oracle told them to. She told Morpheus it was his job to find him.
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Oliver
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Post by Oliver on Aug 28, 2008 8:26:36 GMT -5
Mmm, true. But remember, she was just a computer program. But perhaps the machines new that Neo would be the One? Because they wouldn't need to create the Oracle to help search for the one if they never knew about him... Neo is a glitch in the Matrix, perhaps he was created on purpose?
(And this is where your head REALLY starts to implode)
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Kmylove
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Post by Kmylove on Aug 28, 2008 8:53:04 GMT -5
Mmm, true. But remember, she was just a computer program. But perhaps the machines new that Neo would be the One? Because they wouldn't need to create the Oracle to help search for the one if they never knew about him... Neo is a glitch in the Matrix, perhaps he was created on purpose? (And this is where your head REALLY starts to implode) Well, as far as I interpret things, The One as a glitch in the Matrix is just an abstract concept, so there is no telling who would be the One. It was Neo, but it might as well have been Switch, Apoc, Mouse, whoever freed their mind to the extent where they'd understand the laws of the Matrix and how to bend them. Maybe that's why not only the humans needed to look for the One, but also the Machines. And maybe the Oracle is a program designed to make the humans help them find the One, since she gives people the illusion of a fake prophecy, never telling them all the aspects that the end of the war implied (the One only chosing a few individuals to restart the Matrix with). The Machines need to find the One just as much as the humans do, just for different reasons, and the Oracle is a perfect manipulation tool.
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Oliver
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Post by Oliver on Aug 28, 2008 21:32:57 GMT -5
Hmmm, strong point. But then again, the One as a glitch could be more than just a concept. Because think about it, a person doesn't need to be "freed" from the Matrix to do all the things the free ones can, like jump buildings and punch brick walls. If someone inside the matrix who hadn't been released yet was sat down and told all about the Matrix, would they be able to understand the laws and then break them? I say they could. So, if anyone inside the Matrix can bend the rules, why is Neo an exception? But then again, the Architect explains how Neo is not the origional "One", there have been 5 (?) before him. So then again, it is possible that Neo can only be the One because he can understand better how to break the Matrix than anyone else. It's just all so confunding
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Oliver
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Post by Oliver on Aug 28, 2008 21:51:11 GMT -5
It is, however, very well explained in the "Neo's mastery of the avatar" in that article you gave reading it now. The whole "realising that his avatar's death is not his own death" sort of embodies his whole One thing. I mean, when Neo is in the Matrix, the programs that tell him his feet are on the ground, and that gravity is keeping them there, are all just part of a computer program, and computer programs can be re-written. However, we understand that a program can only be re-written by someone with access to the program port. So, the reason Neo can do all the things that the others cannot is because of this access to the software. It took Neo's death to realise this. Does this mean that Morpheus would never understand what Neo understands because he has not experienced what Neo has? But remember, Morpheus understands that death in the Matrix is death outside the Matrix "the body cannot live without the mind", however, Morpheus must not understand why that is so. He probably doesn't accept that when the avatar in the Matrix dies, a message is sent to the body outside to shut down, and that the brain, for a short period of time, has the power to override this. If Morpheus understood all this, then he could do with his avatar what Neo can. Or, perhaps only Neo can because of some Glitch within the Matrix? AAARGH! *brains explode*
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Kmylove
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Post by Kmylove on Aug 29, 2008 3:18:04 GMT -5
Hmmm, strong point. But then again, the One as a glitch could be more than just a concept. Because think about it, a person doesn't need to be "freed" from the Matrix to do all the things the free ones can, like jump buildings and punch brick walls. If someone inside the matrix who hadn't been released yet was sat down and told all about the Matrix, would they be able to understand the laws and then break them? I say they could. So, if anyone inside the Matrix can bend the rules, why is Neo an exception? But then again, the Architect explains how Neo is not the origional "One", there have been 5 (?) before him. So then again, it is possible that Neo can only be the One because he can understand better how to break the Matrix than anyone else. It's just all so confunding When someone inside the Matrix becomes aware of the Matrix, I think they reject it and wake up, through self-substantiation. So I think that being free is somehow a sine qua non condition to bend the rules of the Matrix. It is, however, very well explained in the "Neo's mastery of the avatar" in that article you gave reading it now. The whole "realising that his avatar's death is not his own death" sort of embodies his whole One thing. I mean, when Neo is in the Matrix, the programs that tell him his feet are on the ground, and that gravity is keeping them there, are all just part of a computer program, and computer programs can be re-written. However, we understand that a program can only be re-written by someone with access to the program port. So, the reason Neo can do all the things that the others cannot is because of this access to the software. It took Neo's death to realise this. Does this mean that Morpheus would never understand what Neo understands because he has not experienced what Neo has? But remember, Morpheus understands that death in the Matrix is death outside the Matrix "the body cannot live without the mind", however, Morpheus must not understand why that is so. He probably doesn't accept that when the avatar in the Matrix dies, a message is sent to the body outside to shut down, and that the brain, for a short period of time, has the power to override this. If Morpheus understood all this, then he could do with his avatar what Neo can. Or, perhaps only Neo can because of some Glitch within the Matrix? AAARGH! *brains explode* Morpheus thinks that dying in the Matrix sort of automatically kills you in real life, he must be unaware of the chain reaction triggered by the illusion of having your avatar killed. Neo thought so too, and when by dying and accepting the laws of the Matrix he just proved to be a normal person like all the others. It took Trinity's help to make him stop the chain reaction and defeat death, thus proving he was the One: he understood how the Matrix worked and he could change things according to his own will. I think that the scene where he looks at the lobby and sees it in green code proves that he no longer sees Matrix as the illusory reality, but as the program it really is. Remember the first meeting between Neo and The Oracle? She tells him he's not The One, that he has that certain something, but it looks like he's waiting for something, his after life maybe Possibly death is the ultimate challenge to pass if you want to be The One.
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Oliver
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Post by Oliver on Sept 3, 2008 5:10:50 GMT -5
Hmmm. Very good point about people realising they're in the Matrix. I think there was some mention somewhere of meditators who found out how to get out of the Matrix (it might have been in the article you gave) but it also might have been in the movies, I can't remember.
Also, that's a fantastic point about how Neo sees the Matrix as green code. I always just thought that it looked that way for anyone not directly plugged into the matrix (meaning someone who isn't freed) saw it that way because they couldn't work out the code to make it look normal. Think about it, the humans who are free had to re-built the machines that allow entrance into the Matrix, so perhaps they can't work out that part. But now you put it in that perspective, that's probably how Neo is able to break the programs of the Matrix, because he can actually see them. It's like seeing a brick wall and breaking it, you can't do it if you can't see it.
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Kmylove
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Post by Kmylove on Sept 3, 2008 14:59:14 GMT -5
Hmmm. Very good point about people realising they're in the Matrix. I think there was some mention somewhere of meditators who found out how to get out of the Matrix (it might have been in the article you gave) but it also might have been in the movies, I can't remember. Also, that's a fantastic point about how Neo sees the Matrix as green code. I always just thought that it looked that way for anyone not directly plugged into the matrix (meaning someone who isn't freed) saw it that way because they couldn't work out the code to make it look normal. Think about it, the humans who are free had to re-built the machines that allow entrance into the Matrix, so perhaps they can't work out that part. But now you put it in that perspective, that's probably how Neo is able to break the programs of the Matrix, because he can actually see them. It's like seeing a brick wall and breaking it, you can't do it if you can't see it. Remember the scene in Reloaded when Neo, Trinity and Morpheus go to Club Hell to speak with the Merovingian? They have to ask Neo what he can see, and he gives them the details about the building being wired with bombs. And he also sees those spicy details about that woman during their conversation with the Merovingian, and Merv knows he does and reffers to it. So it's safe to say that he is the only one of the humans that, while being in the Matrix, sees the Matrix as code, not as the result of the code. Which is actually weird, considering the fact that while they're outside the Matrix, they watch over goes on inside in pure code form, and they know how to interpret that code just by looking at it. And even if they know how the Matrix really looks, so to say, when they get in they see what every red pill sees. But probably their mind isn't that free and that ready to see things how they really are, they still allow their brains to be controlled by the illusion, and don't know how to controll the illusion themselves.
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Oliver
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Post by Oliver on Sept 4, 2008 22:51:11 GMT -5
Exactly. But I would have thought that they'd prefer to see the Matrix as the illusion, because, well, wouldn't it be annoying seeing green numbers and letters flying around all the time? And you're right, when thye are outside the Matrix, they see it encoded. In part 1 when Neo asks Cypher "do you always look at it encoded?" Cypher mentions something about how there's too much lines of code to decipher.
And you're right again, they can just look at the screens and read the Matrix, because even Link says "then the code got all wierd" and there are parts when people are reading the coded screens and they make wierd faces, noting that something strange has happened to the code that they can't decipher.
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Kmylove
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Post by Kmylove on Sept 5, 2008 1:06:42 GMT -5
Exactly. But I would have thought that they'd prefer to see the Matrix as the illusion, because, well, wouldn't it be annoying seeing green numbers and letters flying around all the time? And you're right, when thye are outside the Matrix, they see it encoded. In part 1 when Neo asks Cypher "do you always look at it encoded?" Cypher mentions something about how there's too much lines of code to decipher. And you're right again, they can just look at the screens and read the Matrix, because even Link says "then the code got all wierd" and there are parts when people are reading the coded screens and they make wierd faces, noting that something strange has happened to the code that they can't decipher. Yeah, that's why it's weird that once they're inside they don't want to /can't read codes
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Oliver
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Post by Oliver on Sept 5, 2008 22:00:43 GMT -5
Ah that makes so much more sense now It's like trying to beat a puzzle, it's always right in front of your eyes but you just can't decipher it.
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