xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 28, 2003 7:44:29 GMT -5
WE have to think that if The borg's home Space is in the Delta Quadrent, then they could easily occupy a good amount of the Gamma quadrent, and maybe even go as far as the next galaxy. I believe Guinin said that The borg has existed for 'thousands' of generations and since they act as thier own seperate collectives 'in some cases' then it is not inconsicable to think that they have stretch further across space then any other species not just in the Milky Way galaxy (Our galaxy and the Trek galaxy) but perhaps across the Universe.
Remember, The Federation, Romulons, Cardassions, Marqui (sp), are all limited to the Alpha quadrent (Beta too as the 4 quadrents are angled like an 'X' as opposed to a '+' although seems not to be cannon) yet the Borg had no problem traveling to the Alpha Quadrent for the battle of wolf 357 only a year or two after discovering Human Beings and the Enterprise D thanks to Q's interaction; attempting to show Picard that mankind was not ready for whats out there in deep space. I assume once The Borg learned of Humans they plotted a course for sector 001, Earth (After assimulating Picard and learning of it's whereabouts). The point i'm trying to make is The borg took only a year or two to reach Federation Space from a point that was supposed to take The USS Voyager 70 years to get back to Federation Space, so Vold may be correct in some of his points. It is logical to think that some collectives of The Borg has technology that far surpasses The Federations. Not only may they exist outside of the galaxy, but it's also reasonable to think that if they became a whole, a complete whole they could destroy the Federation with ease, and take over the 4 quadrents of The Milkyway. After all they have what seems to be a couple hundred thousand years of technology, from all corners of the galaxy and beyond, while The Federation seems to only have several hundred, maybe a thousand or two at the most.
To this day The Federation, and myself are unsure about the origins of The borg. Various timelines throughout the Internet dates Star Trek events back to before the dinosaurs, such as the first Vulcan space flight being on Terrandate 1758 AD or something, but the borg events dont start untill around the 1800's or so when they attacked Guinin's world, and not again untill Q takes The USS Enterprise D to the Delta Quadrent for thier first encounter.
I'm not sure if my dates are exact, but I'm sure you guys get my point.
~Myke
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vold
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Post by vold on Nov 28, 2003 8:41:24 GMT -5
Borg's territory is only about 20,000 light-years in diameter at the Delta Quadrant, but the Borg did explore around the galaxy, they just don't control them. As for Borg timeline, here's my research on it, its kinda long. & haven't been changed for a while, so it may have some old bugs. "The Borg encounter". With continuously watching every Borg episodes & First Contact. [the Borg are my favorite race] Let me start With "First Contact" Ok, 1st of all. In the TNG episode "Q Who?" [2365] Q mentioned that humans are growing faster then they should. In other words the First Contact made by Cochrane isn't suppose to happen [maybe he got blown up due to a malfunction on his ship/or it just didn't work & he return home empty handed] Ok, so the Queen made an expedition to earth's past & failed. The Sphere remnants crashed on earth. Over 90 years later [2152] after Cochrane gave a speech on the future about bionic zombies. Archer's time. They found the remains of the sphere. There they found 2 Drones or was it 3. & a Transwarp Coil. The discovery of the coil explains why Scotty was with a test on Transwarp [2285], but since they don't have the coil itself they have no full knowledge on it just speculations on something to advance for them. & with the assimilations of the science group which consist of humans at that time, 200 years before the Hensens were assimilated, humans have the designation of Species 5618. Ok then the Borg drones manage to send a subspace message to the Delta Quadrant which speculated would reach approximately 200 years later. After 200 years, the info on the cyborgs went thin [they [Starfleet] forgot about them, thanks to the Klingon wars & other things they have to bother with] & since the Borg took the coil & other relevant tech. with them on that transport ship & got destroyed by the NX-01 the Feds have nothing much to research on. In [2293] the Enterprise-B rescued a crew of Guinan's people who told them the Borg destroyed their world. "That's all they told them their name" So comes to TNG Picards time. 14 years before Picard met "his" 1st Borg Cube. The Hensens 'Exobiologist' heard about the strange cyborgs in Archer's log mentioned. Out of curiosity they ask Starfleet to give them a ship & permission to search out for this anonymous race. Since the Borg never mentioned their name to Archer, the only way the Hensens knew their name is through gossips or maybe they asked 1 of Guinan's people to tell them about these Cyborgs & found their name "The Borg" They took of in their journey, met their 1st Cube & disappeared. Ok now or much earlier, the Borg received the message sent by the Drones at Archer's time, they analyzed the message & designate us as Species 5618 for the time of assimilation of the human scientists. The Queen may be intrigued by what are her Drones doing in the Alpha Quadrant at that time without her knowledge & send a Cube to search out this human mystery like the Hensens did about the Borg. The Borg make their first attack on the Federation, destroying several outposts near the Romulan border. The Romulans re-establish diplomatic ties with the Federation at year 2364 before Picard's first Encounter. The Borg surely to realized that humans aren't that advance after assimilating the outposts & planned to ignore them & turn back. Then later in 2365 Picard, with a provoked conversation with Q & when Q flung the Enterprise-D to 7000 light-year distance to a area where a Cube is nearby, This most definitely draw the Borg's attention, "a vessel appear out of nowhere without any warp trail they expect humans to use." Picard met them, "talked to them", research as much as possible, ran away, "beg" Q to return them back & disappeared from the Borgs sensors. If this doesn't bring interest to the Borg, nothing will. "How did a ship disappeared 7000 light-years away in a blink of an eye", even transwarp can't do that. Of course the Queen did not know that Q did it for them. Nonetheless, she thinks this is a worthy race to assimilate & taking Picard as an equal since he's in charge of a ship that escapes the Borg. [reason for an equal is because, since they are going to assimilate earth they need another Queen like being there 70,000 light years away to control the Borg at the Alpha Quadrant. PS: Guinan herself mentioned she wasn't there personally when her world was attacked By Borg. As time goes by, at 2367 after the incident at Wolf 359 [graveyard in space 80 Federation ships are destroyed by a single Cube led by Locutus]- "First Contact" [year 2373] came. The Queen went to Earth for assimilation of humanity. Then the Queen planned on the time travel idea, unknowingly that it will bring to her demise. [because the Drones did not tell fully of the "First Contact" incident.] "A full circle is complete." Time paradoxes "Temporal Loop" [like Data's Head] During this event [year 2373] The Collective was left alone to fend for themselves. Which so happens Voyager reach to Borg Space. There the Borg is in war with Species 8472. With Voyager's help the Borg won that war. In 2374 7 of 9 was "liberated", by the Borg's consent [they wanted her to live with the Voyager crew to learn about individualism.] claimed by the Queen. Later on "Dark Frontier" or much earlier, a new Queen is born out of a female Species 125. She knows of the 8472 event & about 7 of 9. She then plan to retrieve her back. [hoping that a female equal would be more cooperative then the last 2 males "Locutus & Data"] but this proved to failure thanks to Janeways interference. Unimatrix 0 came later, they said that an malfunction in assimilating a single drone caused Unimatrix 0 to happen. [I think that drone is "3 of 5 (Hugh)" after the Enterprise-D crew returned him with individualism & something happened during his [reassimilation] Or it could be another drone. Later leads on to "Endgame" where the Feds received new tech to survive against the Borg. Other then the technology, there are Borg renegades, natural anomalies, Other races using mischievous tactics [Viruses], the 8472 War & Admiral Janeway's destruction of the Unicomplex, have crippled the Borg exponentially [not to mention a new Collective is born, a more emotional one, the one Chakotay help to create at "Unity"]. All this shows it possible for the Federation to survive till the 29th century.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 28, 2003 16:12:35 GMT -5
I am quite impressed with your knowlege of the borg vold. Either you really are The Borgs number one fan, or you are in fact a Borg, sent here to determine weather 21th century Earth is worth issimulating? Hmm. .. . ~Myke
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 28, 2003 16:14:10 GMT -5
Actually to me that looks right Vold, but theres parts that are missing as well. If you remember, Decker joined with V-Ger in Star Trek the Motion Picture, and we all know V-Ger came from a machine planet(Borg-living machines) So really they may have gotten the designation Species 5618 in Kirks time. I don't know if you have read any books relating to the borg in the star trek franchise, but in one book(I cant remember the name), the Borg went to Veridian 3 and got Kirks body and brought him back to life with nanoprobes. During the course of the book, they tried to assimilate Spock, but couldn't because he had already been assimilated by them in the past(mind meld with V-Ger). They also tried to re-assimilate Picard, but it wouldn;t take either because the borg cannot re-assimilate someone who has been freed(this was before Voyager came about though). The book ended with Kirk destroying the power supply of the complex that powered the borg. Now if this doesn't throw the concept of the borg for a loop then nothing will To be honest, this is one thing I hope that Star Trek will acknowledge if they do make another movie sometime. There is so much we know about the Borg, but so little as well. I have always thought the Borg were started with V-Ger but who really knows.
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vold
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Post by vold on Nov 29, 2003 7:16:00 GMT -5
PS: I'm not criticising you here, just talking only. I reread it it may sound like I'm holding a grudge, but its nothing to do with that ok. Thank you. Someone once pointed the "V'Ger" idea, its a very interesting thougt, sort of but all facts shows its a wrong idea. 1. Borg existed long before V'Ger's time 2. Borg won't sent things back to their original homeworlds, which so happens that this mechanical race did send our Probe back after "improving" it. 3. They aren't Cyborgs. just machines minds in human bodies. But your idea, is about thats how they knew humans, the other fella who told me this idea, thinks its how Borg came to be, sheesh, thats even more wrong, cause Borg existed long before humans. How can that be how they came to be. About the book, that's because its not canon with the shows. Books show alot of things, that the movie itself didn't even shed light off. in other words they are not connected. Too bad about that. it may be interesting to have another canon connection. But that would mean I have to buy every book. Books are more like diehard fan's chance of hope. Why? because as u said they involve people like Kirk in such things, its something that diehard fans can cling unto. some of the plots are too farfetching. like can't reassimilate, that's 100% nonsense theres no single fact or fiction to have such an idea. unless its a cartoonish type of idea.
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 29, 2003 13:06:50 GMT -5
You can't say what the Borg did to Kirk's body in the book couldn't happen. It never did say how long Kirk had been dead by the time Generations had ended, and we know that the Borg can revive people longer than Star Trek modern medicine could. Remember Neelix was past the point of revival according to the doctor on Voyager, yet 7 of 9 stated it was very possible to bring him back with nanoprobes because not tenough time had passed yet, Borg medicine was far more advanced(due to assimilation).
Books can be very interesting as well though.
I remember Rick Berman saying that the Voyager series of books would be the most accurate because they ended the freedom of indea style format they had for most books. They wanted the books to be relativally close to the series as possible, thus they were always much better than the TNG books where they seemed to take place in random order.
I have read alot of the books that had been put out for TNG,DS9, and Voyager and always thought that alot of them would have made great episodes(only 2-3 parters though).
Thats the one thing about Voyager I didn;t like, DS9 had several seasons where the first few were tied into each other so if you missed an ep, you basically could be screwed on understanding the others in that line of eps.
As far as the Borg, I'm not saying that V'Ger was the start, but the machine planet could possibly have been the Borg, because at sometime, the Borg would have been limited to a planetary system as well. I highly doubt the very first Borg was created in space.
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vold
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Post by vold on Nov 29, 2003 17:32:32 GMT -5
2 things first. 1: I didn't say the possibilities of the book couldn't happened. But its chosen not to be included to the TV's stories. Anyway, if you get the year of that Kirk's assimilations then we can see if its possible or not. Kirk was buried on 2371 [when Voyager got lost, ST:Nemesis is on 2379. Now check the book & find any clues as to when they got him. 2: I didn't say you thought it was V'Ger who started it, I said another fella said it. The only thing I said about you is, The Borg wouldn't assimilate the probe & send it back home. Its not their way to give back tech. But the story could be changed a bit, The probe was assimilated, & sent back to assimilate us, but during this incident, the probe integrated with human beings [not assimilated] & earn a new perspective & forget about assimilation & left the humans alone. but this is a long shot idea. Anyway, I disagree with you on Voyager's episodes importance. They are all important, every series episodes, it represents what the crew is experiencing, & they all can be connected in a way. I prefer not to hold grudge or play favorites, in other words, I don't like a series better then the other. I treat them all as equal, even though they lack something in certain ways. This allows me to see things in a broader perspective. Example, while Voyager is getting lost I can see ST:Generations happening on the same year. Or when the Borg invade earth at 2373, Voyager reached Borg space at the same year, which shows why the Collective have no Queen at the moment. Or at 2374, when the EMH doc went back to the Alpha Quadrant, he had no idea about the Dominion. Because DS9 haven't met them, before Voyager got lost. So you see, they are all connected, not only by episodes to one another, but by every series. I can give more samples if you like. That's what I find great about Star Trek. Picturing many things practically happening at the same time. & rationalizing situations. I got a list of Earth dates, when each series & movie’s time in the story. I’m not talking about when the show first aired, I mean the time the story is based on in their earth year.
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 29, 2003 20:58:27 GMT -5
The book where the Borg brought Kirk back took place a couple weeks after Generations(I would have to get the book out of rafters to find exact date), but it opened with the Enterprise crew helping clean up the last of the Enterprise-D remains from Veridian 3(cant leave no remains for the other Veridian inhabitants to find when they get into space sometime)
I would love for another series to take place with the Bog heavily involved in it. I always wondered why they didn't do an entire season with the Bog with Voyager is beyond me, but then again the costs may have been to much to go into it as well.
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vold
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Post by vold on Nov 29, 2003 23:21:02 GMT -5
I'm hoping for a series all about Borg ;D What I mean is, the stars of the shows are the Drones How they live their lives, their past, their assimilations. What I'm thinking is, they start off having a new Queen & she's rebuilding her forces & stabilizing the Collective. But out there in a Vessel, theres this single individual who regains he's/she's consciousness, but he's/she's confused. he/she lived on their own lives as a drone willingly without the Collective's consciousness controlling, he/she later digs up the past of the Borg, understanding them. In the end he/she have to make a choice. Stay & serve or go freely. But the new Queen, is more like a princess, her coronation, didn't go as well as normal Queens do, she's like a kid, unsure what to do. confuse most of the time, & kinda dreamy she also gets headaches from the collective voice. Later she saw this individual drone freely serving the Collective, they both have to help 1 another to live on. In the end, maybe they could both leave, because the Collective may soon decide they are more troublesome then worth. So they plan to make a new Queen. What happens to those 2 & whoever else, that's the writer's choice. But I think they should go with the Borg Rebels. Then that means there’s 3 Queens in the Galaxy 1. The Rebels 2. The New Collective in "Unity" 3. The Original Borg This of course, have to be a very patient viewers to watch such a story , I think many others will get bored easily. so whatcha think of this crazy idea
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 29, 2003 23:43:57 GMT -5
I would think a series on the Borg could work, but it would probably be better to have another series deal with them as well though.
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vold
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Post by vold on Nov 29, 2003 23:47:13 GMT -5
Ok, but what about the idea?
& what u mean by deal with them? [beat them up?]
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 30, 2003 0:40:27 GMT -5
Well simply put, you can't have the Borg without having them trying to or actually assimilating other species.
On Voyager they showed somewhat goes on during assimilation, but they need to have unknown species to assimilate to get the true borg feel.
I would love a series based on the borg.
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Tobbles
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Post by Tobbles on Dec 18, 2004 10:28:25 GMT -5
Good knowlege my favourite was the borg. In 1996 i was only 7 and i used to be afraid of the assimilation in First Contact. LOL. I was only young. I have been a startrek since i was really young. It just began watching it with my dad now i love it.
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oblivion
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Post by oblivion on Dec 18, 2004 13:11:20 GMT -5
I think a whole series based on the borg would get a little old. The best of all the episodes that featured borg had several things in common
-- A borg dealing with individuality (Hugh, 7 of 9)
-- Other species interacting with and learning more about what makes Borg tick (Hugh, 7 of 9, Locutus)
-- Both borg and other species learning that their viewpoints of the "other half" are narrow and leave out vital aspects of what makes the "other half" effective and even pro-survival. I.E. Why is something irrelevant to the borg and of crucial relevance to individuals?
You can't have this type of interaction unless the borg are individuated by chance or by design. I think a series about the borg would very quickly prove that it's not really "about" the borg at all. Any more than DS9 was "about" the wormhole and the Dominion or Voyager was "about" getting back to the alpha quadrant.
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ConqueringWolf
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Post by ConqueringWolf on Dec 20, 2004 8:19:16 GMT -5
Personally I would love to see Kirk come back....I never did like the way Generations ended and how they just left Kirk's body there. I would love to see them do the storyline where the Borg bring back Kirk....I think that would probably make a great movie. Shatner could still act the part too....even though he is old he still doesn't look too bad....
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