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Post by theartak on May 30, 2005 8:05:00 GMT -5
I have to agree with where Voyager is going with this...where does this indication arise that the Death Star II had the same flaw as the first one? And based upon the Emperor's own statements, we can assume it is likely that he was indeed drawing the Rebellion in...especially given the presence of a significant portion of the Imperial fleet.
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Post by voyager on May 30, 2005 8:09:00 GMT -5
If the second one had done its job, there would be no more rebel alliance and the Empire would have won. Going by that, I assumed that the second one was modified and the fatal flaw from the first one was fixed. Keep in mind, in Jedi, the Death Stars shields were not operational yet, so the Empire had rushed to make the weapons the top priority and shielding secondary, because they wanted to draw the rebels to it to destroy them. Of course the Empire never took the teddy bears into account as a threat
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on May 30, 2005 14:48:52 GMT -5
Hmm, you guys are right, they were destroyed by two different means.
I think the Empire thought they were safe on the first one, because an X Wing could not directly shoot into that vent. It took Luke using the Force to guide the lasers to destory it.
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Mutantlavalamp
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Post by Mutantlavalamp on May 30, 2005 15:26:03 GMT -5
Well, you did see the original death star at the end of episode III... but yeah. They probably had all sorts of tests, research, and other stuff to do on that first one. When they made the 2nd one, they had it down already As far as Episode III, I have nothing bad to say about it at all. I don't really think they could have done a better job bridging the gap between II and IV. Everything about it was excellent. I believe it even surpassed epsiode V for me ;D
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Post by voyager on May 30, 2005 16:43:19 GMT -5
They briefly showed what appeared to be the death star at the end of III, and it was basically a beginning part if anything as there wasn't anyouter skin on it really yet. Basically they had just started it.
As far as how long it took, like i said,m it was secretly built so I could see it taking 18 years or so to build. The second one could have been started not to long before the first one was destroyed either.
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Post by valderra on Jun 10, 2005 8:56:23 GMT -5
Loved the first 20 minutes ;D Apart from the last half hour, I found the movie exceedingly boring. My husband liked it though... Also, what I observerd was that in the original SW movies, you were one by one introduced to the different animals, space crafts, races and such. In the new trilogy, everything seems to be cramped into one scene. You see all those different crafts, animals, and races not only in one movie but in just one scene - to me that's too much and I get overload. And another thing was that whatshername "Padme"? died in childbirth. However, in the original SW trilogy, when Luke finally tells Leia that she is his sister, and they talk about the past, Luke says that he doesn't remember their mother (he was too young or something) and Leia tells him that she remembers and that their mother was beautiful and bla bla bla. So either George Lucas is getting senile and forgetting the dialogue of his first trilogy, or... he thought that the majority of viewers (the younger generation) will either not remember, or haven't seen the original trilogy or couldn't care less. Well, I care. LOL ALSO... I didn't quite believe how quickly Aneken just gave up on the Jedi and - especially since he was practically brought up by Obi Wan - that he could turn so quickly away from him and the councel in order to join the Dark Side. I think that Aneken would have - in reality - gone to Obi Wan and told him of his troubles and about his dreams and told him what the councellor was offering him. THAT should have happened first, not that in a split second, he just turns away from people he has known most of his life. I really thought the movie was somewhat rushed to get it to the conclusion. ALSO... how on Jupiter could Aneken have survived when he was engulfed in those flames. And not only was his entire body on fire, all of a sudden, in the next scene, the flames were gone. Now that just doesn't happen, especially when you are surrounded by lava.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Jun 10, 2005 11:11:36 GMT -5
Loved the first 20 minutes ;D Apart from the last half hour, I found the movie exceedingly boring. My husband liked it though... Also, what I observerd was that in the original SW movies, you were one by one introduced to the different animals, space crafts, races and such. In the new trilogy, everything seems to be cramped into one scene. You see all those different crafts, animals, and races not only in one movie but in just one scene - to me that's too much and I get overload. Which species were you not familiar with? I do see what you are saying, but in Episodes I and II we were introduced to the different species, be it the Gungans, Kamino's, ect. I think in Episode III we didn't learn a lot about the species from the world where the Clone Troopers turned on Obi-Wan simply because there was a war going on, and because this movie was 99 percent about the fall of Anakin Skywalker. And another thing was that whatshername "Padme"? died in childbirth. However, in the original SW trilogy, when Luke finally tells Leia that she is his sister, and they talk about the past, Luke says that he doesn't remember their mother (he was too young or something) and Leia tells him that she remembers and that their mother was beautiful and bla bla bla. So either George Lucas is getting senile and forgetting the dialogue of his first trilogy, or... he thought that the majority of viewers (the younger generation) will either not remember, or haven't seen the original trilogy or couldn't care less. Well, I care. LOL That is a very good question. I have wondered the same think myself. I wonder if Leia was talking about Queen Organa, as opposed to Padme? ALSO... I didn't quite believe how quickly Aneken just gave up on the Jedi and - especially since he was practically brought up by Obi Wan - that he could turn so quickly away from him and the councel in order to join the Dark Side. I think that Aneken would have - in reality - gone to Obi Wan and told him of his troubles and about his dreams and told him what the councellor was offering him. THAT should have happened first, not that in a split second, he just turns away from people he has known most of his life. I really thought the movie was somewhat rushed to get it to the conclusion. I liked it, for reasons I have stated here in the Ep III threads. Remember, he had thought Obi-Wan had turned on him, along with the other Jedi. He had no where else to turn except to Palpatine. Love will also make a man do things he would have never done otherwise. All along Anakin thought he was doing the right thing, he never believed he was ' evil'. I think this is one of those things where people will always be split on. It seems half of the people didn't like it, where the other half did. ALSO... how on Jupiter could Aneken have survived when he was engulfed in those flames. And not only was his entire body on fire, all of a sudden, in the next scene, the flames were gone. Now that just doesn't happen, especially when you are surrounded by lava. Anakin wasn't just another human. You and me could not survive that, but we are not as powerful as Anakin. The Dark Side gave him power that we will never understand. Also, keep in mind that Anakin would have died had it not been for Palpatine rescuing him, and giving him the black suit and breather that sustained his life for years to come.
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oblivion
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Post by oblivion on Jun 10, 2005 12:27:56 GMT -5
Sometimes I feel like a Star Wars apologist, trying to come up with an "within the SW universe" explanation for something that may just have been an oversight on the continuity crew's part...
My thoughts on Leia's memories are that they ARE memories of Padme. Luke asked her about her real mother, THEIR mother, not her adoptive mother.
Leia is Force-sensitive, and her "gift" seemed to be tuning in to the emotions of people who are close to her. She said in episode 6 that she had nothing but impressions, not real memories. She said "beautiful" and "very sad".
I think this is a sensory/empathic impression left on the infant Leia at the very moment before her mother died.
Luke's talents lay in other aspects of the Force, so he didn't have the opportunity to make that emotional link in the moments between the twins' births and their mother's death.
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on Jun 10, 2005 14:52:34 GMT -5
Oblivion most likely has he right answer of course in regard to Leia and Padme.
And with regards to Anakin surviving, Palpatine knowing how to keep people from dying is true (as a matter of fact, can you recall a Sith lying? Might be an interesting thought). Now granted, he wouldn't have been able to teach Anakin how to do it in seven months, but he was able to keep Anakin alive.
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Post by valderra on Jun 10, 2005 17:24:08 GMT -5
[ Which species were you not familiar with? I do see what you are saying, but in Episodes I and II we were introduced to the different species, be it the Gungans, Kamino's, ect. I think in Episode III we didn't learn a lot about the species from the world where the Clone Troopers turned on Obi-Wan simply because there was a war going on, and because this movie was 99 percent about the fall of Anakin Skywalker. No Myke, I was referring to the fact that in the original trilogy (with Han Solo) you were slowly introduced to the different species but in this new trilogy, you see everything all at once - kind of an overload for me.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Jun 10, 2005 18:23:41 GMT -5
I think oblivion is right as well, on how Leia remembered Padme. That is a perfect explination, one that makes perfect sense.
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Post by valderra on Jun 11, 2005 5:31:00 GMT -5
I think oblivion is right as well, on how Leia remembered Padme. That is a perfect explination, one that makes perfect sense. Sorry, but I don't buy that. It's a darn excuse... and yes, I know that they were talking about their real mother - why would they talk about their respective adoptive parents? Anyway, from the first trilogy it is clear that their REAL mother was still alive while both children were still small. George Lucas just cocked it all up and now people are trying to find excuses and reasons for it.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Jun 11, 2005 12:01:07 GMT -5
I think oblivion is right as well, on how Leia remembered Padme. That is a perfect explination, one that makes perfect sense. Sorry, but I don't buy that. It's a darn excuse... and yes, I know that they were talking about their real mother - why would they talk about their respective adoptive parents? Anyway, from the first trilogy it is clear that their REAL mother was still alive while both children were still small. George Lucas just cocked it all up and now people are trying to find excuses and reasons for it. Actually, I always thought their mother died when they twins were really young. Besides, even in the old trilogy it was stated that Obi-Wan hid the twins from Anakin at their birth, so it wouldn't matter if Padme was alive or not, she was no where near her children. I don't think Lucas messed up at all here, and I do buy FL's theory. Remember, this is the same universe where people can jump 500 feet in the air, choke others by squeezing their fingers together, minipulate others minds, and come back from the dead, all by using the force. So FL's theory holds true, by using the force. Afterall, Leia was Anakin Skywalker's daughter.
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Post by valderra on Jun 11, 2005 18:17:18 GMT -5
Sorry, but I don't buy that. It's a darn excuse... and yes, I know that they were talking about their real mother - why would they talk about their respective adoptive parents? Anyway, from the first trilogy it is clear that their REAL mother was still alive while both children were still small. George Lucas just cocked it all up and now people are trying to find excuses and reasons for it. Actually, I always thought their mother died when they twins were really young. Besides, even in the old trilogy it was stated that Obi-Wan hid the twins from Anakin at their birth, so it wouldn't matter if Padme was alive or not, she was no where near her children. I don't think Lucas messed up at all here, and I do buy FL's theory. Remember, this is the same universe where people can jump 500 feet in the air, choke others by squeezing their fingers together, minipulate others minds, and come back from the dead, all by using the force. So FL's theory holds true, by using the force. Afterall, Leia was Anakin Skywalker's daughter. LOL If you say so... ;D
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on Jun 11, 2005 18:59:28 GMT -5
Or...if that doesn't satisfy, we could look at it this way. Leia obviously didn't know that she was a Skywalker, since meeting Luke Skywalker didn't seem like such a big deal, so maybe she was told that the Organas were her real parents.
Of course, I don't buy that because th e Force gives Leia a bond to relatives (like when she sensed Luke in Empire Strikes Back).
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