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Post by Ðreamreaver on May 31, 2005 21:57:53 GMT -5
Yes, that is true Myke. But they could have made a major plot with Anakin going after Dooku and Palpatine urging him on to kill him (much like we saw in the beginning of Episode III). I don't know...I just think it would have been an exclamation point on Anakin turning to the dark side. Really the only purpose Greivous served was to divert Obi-Wan so Palpatine could have some one-on-one face time with Anakin without Obi-Wan's interfering. Greivous served his purpose I guess...I just like Christopher Lee lol.
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ConqueringWolf
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Post by ConqueringWolf on Jun 1, 2005 17:47:58 GMT -5
I don't think I liked the way Anakin turned to the dark side....he seemed so offended that palpatine was the sith lord and he turned him into the jedi council even after Palpatine had already offered to give him the power to save padame. He then even was still wanting palpatine to stand trial even after Windo had "defeated" him....he jumped in at the last second to save Palpatine and that cost Windu his life....but i still didnt see anything in that whole sequence of events that should have changed Anakin and made him go to the dark side. It just seemed like the whole thing was a little too casual to me,...i was expecting something a whole lot more traumatic to push him over the edge.
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Post by theartak on Jun 1, 2005 23:12:39 GMT -5
You're right, Wolf, it did seem a little "convenient." Like, "Hmm. It's about two-thirds of the way through the movie. Let's make you Vader now, okay?"
And, as a friend of mine asked. "Umm...he just gives him the name, and that's it? I'd be like, why that name? At least let me pick my own."
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on Jun 2, 2005 0:22:55 GMT -5
Well granted, Lucas could have portrayed it a bit better, but I think the point was that Anain had just killed a jedi so there was no way of turning back.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Jun 2, 2005 1:04:24 GMT -5
I don't think I liked the way Anakin turned to the dark side....he seemed so offended that palpatine was the sith lord and he turned him into the jedi council even after Palpatine had already offered to give him the power to save padame. He then even was still wanting palpatine to stand trial even after Windo had "defeated" him....he jumped in at the last second to save Palpatine and that cost Windu his life....but i still didnt see anything in that whole sequence of events that should have changed Anakin and made him go to the dark side. It just seemed like the whole thing was a little too casual to me,...i was expecting something a whole lot more traumatic to push him over the edge. You really need to stop listening to critics before watching a movie, they are clouding your mind. Ok, Why would Anakin NOT go to the Dark Side? What wasn't traumatic about his situation. Ok... He did not believe Obi-Wan and the Jedi council had enough faith in him. He, after all, was the chosen one, yet he felt as if he was being held back. This came to a climax when he was granted a seat on the Jedi council, yet was not granted the rank of 'master'. Anakin loved Padme. She was EVERYTHING to him. He loved her as much, if not more then he loved his mother. After his mothers death, he violated the Jedi code when he slaughtered the camp of Tuskian Raiders. He was having dreams of Padme's death, which he believed would come true. This is something he could not handle. Even in Episode II he said one day he will learn to stop people from dying. Now, with his anger toward the Jedi council, he still seeks advice from Yoda. Yoda basically tells him to piss off, not to worry about and what happens happens. Palpatine tells him he can help him save Padme. When Anakin finds out Palpatine is a Sith, of course he offended. Remember in AIM the other day, I told you Anakin never once thought he was doing wrong. He didn't want to be a 'bad guy' like those dumb ass critics said he did that you read. When he found out Palpatine was a Sith, he wanted to kill him. What stopped him was the little bit of good left in him, and the fact he needed Palpatines help. When he discovered Mace Windu was about to kill Palpatine, he freaked. For one, that does go against what the Jedi stand for, which was probably the final straw for Anakin since he was already so displeased with the Jedi. On top of everything, one Jedi (Yoda) told Anikan not to worry about his dreams, to let it happen, and the 2nd Jedi (Mace) was about to kill the only man who could help Anakin out. That right there made Anakin believe the Jedi were evil and twisted. If they are so good, then why let PAdme die? Remember, love can blind any man who experinces it. Anakin is no different. So, when Windu went to strike Palpatine, Anakin intervened, which lead to Windu's death. At that point he asked what had he done, but soon realized that it was too late. Also, keep in mind that the Dark Side is a power, like the force. If a Jedi opens his mind to the dark side, then it can take him over, like a disease. Is it a persons fault they cannot remember if they have Alzheimer's? No. So for the reasons I stated above, Anakin coming to hate the Jedi, thinking they were careless and evil, and believing Palpatine and the Sith were true good guys, with the power to stop death that Anakin has wanted for the past two movies, and with the power of the Dark Side influencing his mind, I think his turn the dark side made perfect sense. Anakin never believed he was evil, he never wanted to be evil. Anakin believed he was doing the right thing all along. And as for Palpatine naming him Darth Vader, that is the tradition of the Sith. The sith lord names his new apprentice. Like I said, you have to stop reading those dumb ass critics before watching a movie like that. They have the power of suggestion, and many times one will remember their comments before realizing something else. I don't know. I just know they are making a living by finding every flaw of a movie, and exaggerating on them with what they believe to be crafty writing. After all, doesn't one appear to be smarter when he/she can sit there and tear something down, exploit every fault and act like they know more then director and producer? If they know so much, why the hell are they writing reviews on the Internet and not making bigger and better movies? Answer, because they don't know anything. ;D ok, </end rant> Anakin's turn to the dark side was done perfect in my opinion. It wasn't just for one reason, but for many reasons. A multi dimensional storyline.
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Post by theartak on Jun 2, 2005 1:32:44 GMT -5
Wow...touchy... I just wish something else had been the specific turning point. The killing of Dooku, or even if Anakin had killed Mace himself directly...but he just kinda 'pops.' Given the build up to it that you mentioned, it's sort of anti-climatic.
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Post by xkamelx on Jun 2, 2005 1:39:40 GMT -5
Wow...touchy... I just wish something else had been the specific turning point. The killing of Dooku, or even if Anakin had killed Mace himself directly...but he just kinda 'pops.' Given the build up to it that you mentioned, it's sort of anti-climatic. I just like to pick on Wolf because he has so much faith in what the critics has to say. Most of the time, if the bash something, I find it to be a good movie, if they praise something, I find it to be a long bore - most of the time. The reason why I liked how it happened is because it was a multi dimensional storyline. It wasn't just one thing, it wasn't just one event, but a series of events that lead to it, like fate itself was guiding him to the dark side. I just don't like black and white storylines, I like those shades of grey, and I think Episode III had that.
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Post by theartak on Jun 2, 2005 1:54:37 GMT -5
The critics and I only see eye to eye on one thing, usually. That we don't see eye to eye on anything. Although they have been correct about every Madonna and/or J-Lo film ever made. They all sucked. But even a three year old could see that. I'm not saying drop the buildup. But make the climax worth the buildup. You have to agree, it's not the first time Lucas has built something up like that only to let the person down when they get there. After ESB, he just never was able to build a successful climax again...well, okay, just in this trilogy. The "I am a Jedi like my father before me" one was good.
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ConqueringWolf
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Post by ConqueringWolf on Jun 2, 2005 7:36:54 GMT -5
LOL...this has nothing to do with what the critics say...its also what i have heard lots of normal people say and even for me personally...like Ar'Tak said i found it anti climactic. I understand him wanting to have the power of the sith to save Padme BUT....he knew he wasn;t going to get that power if the senator stood trial and was thrown in a prison or something....and even while Windu was getting ready to kill Paapatine he was still being a jedi and saying he should go to trial....the power to save Padme was the last thing on his mind at that time. As for killing Palpatine even though it's against the jedi code I don't like that plotline either because Anakin himself had alreadyh killed someone who was defeated at the command of palpatine..and what was the excuse Palpatine used? "He's was too dangerous to leave alive" which is the same excuse that Windu was using. I just felt like for all the buildup of everything that there was to turn him to the darkside....when the moment came that he made his decision to turn....it seems like he turned for no reason. He seemed more pissed off when he confronted padme and saw Obi-Wan was on the ship with her....now I expected something like THAT to be the turning point to make him a sith...that would have been more appropiate.
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Post by FantasyLover on Jun 2, 2005 14:06:25 GMT -5
And is killing a jedi not a major reason to switch to the Sith?
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Post by Ðreamreaver on Jun 2, 2005 14:15:26 GMT -5
Anakin was seduced to the dark side. As Myke pointed out, he never wanted to be bad. When the dark side took hold, Anakin succumbed to it's power and became evil. I agree with Myke all the way on this. I think Lucas did a decent job with his transition.
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Post by xkamelx on Jun 2, 2005 15:06:02 GMT -5
LOL...this has nothing to do with what the critics say...its also what i have heard lots of normal people say Normal people will not spend the time to see all aspects of the storyline. They want one definitive thing to happen to change Anakin so they have to put zero thought into it. My mother is not a Star Wars fan. Had she watched the movie, she may think he turned for no reason as well. like Ar'Tak said i found it anti climactic. I understand him wanting to have the power of the sith to save Padme BUT....he knew he wasn;t going to get that power if the senator stood trial and was thrown in a prison or something....and even while Windu was getting ready to kill Paapatine he was still being a jedi and saying he should go to trial....the power to save Padme was the last thing on his mind at that time. Not true, I don't think. When he discovered Palpatine was a Sith, he was doing the Jedi thing. He knew he needed Palpatine, but the Jedi code told him he had to do the right thing, and turn Palpatine in. He was doing good as opposed to satisfying his own needs, just as a good Jedi should. As for killing Palpatine even though it's against the jedi code I don't like that plotline either because Anakin himself had alreadyh killed someone who was defeated at the command of palpatine..and what was the excuse Palpatine used? "He's was too dangerous to leave alive" which is the same excuse that Windu was using. Anakin killed Dokuu for revenge, for severing his arm in the battle of Geonosis. That was the dark side of the force flowing through him. Now, remember, Anakin turned Palpatine into Mace Windu. He was doing the right thing. As he stood in the Jedi temple looking out towards Padme, and her looking back towards him across the city, he began thinking. He had time alone to comptenplate the situation, and the more he thought about it, the more he realized he needed Palpatine, then he went to save him, or at least his life. Even in prison, Palpatine could have helped Anakin. As for the same excuses, that says something. That shows that Anakin was indeed becoming a Sith. He convicted Mace Windu after Mace gave the same excuse to kill Palpatine as Palpatine gave Anakin to kill Dokuu. That shows the evil of the dark side. Another reason why Anakin was blinded to that fact is because he was literally going insane with wanting to protect Padme. At this point in time there were to sides. Mace represented the Jedi, who had turned Anakin's pleas of saving Padme down, and who were betraying him, as he thought. Then there was Palpatine who stood for everything Anakin wanted, more power, respect, and the ability to save Padme. There are few among us who would not have made Anakin's decision. I just felt like for all the buildup of everything that there was to turn him to the darkside....when the moment came that he made his decision to turn....it seems like he turned for no reason. He turned for many reasons, as stated above. He seemed more pissed off when he confronted padme and saw Obi-Wan was on the ship with her....now I expected something like THAT to be the turning point to make him a sith...that would have been more appropiate. See that's the one dimesional storyline that I DIDN'T want. So Anakin turns to the dark side because he though Obi-Wan was having an affair with Padme? How overdone and unoriginal. That was what made Anakin decide to kill Obi-Wan, seeing them together. I honestly believed the good in him was gonna let Obi-Wan live,even get away if he didn't want to be with the Empire. However, when he saw Obi-Wan, he thought he and Padme were conspiring against him, and his anger turned to power. That is when he lost it and choked Padme, and decided to kill Obi-Wan. It all makes perfect sense to me, and played out beautifully.
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ConqueringWolf
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Post by ConqueringWolf on Jun 2, 2005 19:45:41 GMT -5
LOL...and that is why everyone sees a movie differently...personally I would have rather seen something more traumatic to make him turn.....I thought it seemed more like Anakin was just suffering from PMS instead of turning to the dark side
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Post by xkamelx on Jun 2, 2005 21:03:35 GMT -5
LOL...and that is why everyone sees a movie differently...personally I would have rather seen something more traumatic to make him turn.....I thought it seemed more like Anakin was just suffering from PMS instead of turning to the dark side What's more tramatic then loosing the woman you are in love with?
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Post by theartak on Jun 2, 2005 21:07:29 GMT -5
Never thought I'd see the day when I agreed with Wolf...lol But I do have to say, the whole Obi-wan/Anakin/Padme thing would have been too cliche, yes. Even if Anakin had actually killed Mace himself, I would have been better with it. But an arm severing doesn't equal dark side to me.
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