FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on Nov 21, 2005 19:49:38 GMT -5
The reason they are doing the hard work is because they didn't pay enough attention to their education. Thus, it's their fault.
Bill Clinton was born into the lower class and became President. In a communist country, if you're born into a mining field, you die in a mining field.
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Zarokachsti
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Post by Zarokachsti on Nov 22, 2005 1:08:13 GMT -5
Exactly, that is good proof of the benefits of capitalism compared to communism.
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Peter
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Everything is relative...
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Post by Peter on Nov 22, 2005 11:42:13 GMT -5
No it is honestly not. I don't see why you people can't understand. You come along with these bizarre preconceptions about communism and strange ideas that it is peoples fault that they are poor and say that it is I who has no understanding.
No offense, but that is a completely ridiculous statement when you think about it. Peoples attitudes to education, as I have said countless times before, are created by the social situation they are brought up in. Although many people actually don't have a chance for education, we are focussing here on those who have the chance for education but because of social pressures do not take advantage. Personally I believe this is a property of the way education is treated (which needs huge reform). The ridiculous system that is employed at the moment can be very de-motivating for a lot of people. You may argue this is not to do with class or financial situation, which is true. When we observe it in further depth, however, we discover one of the grossest inequalities of capitalism. The ones who happen to be born into a richer family may not work as hard but, because of their inheritance, they tend to get not only a better education but also better financial support if they 'fail' in school. Once again, 'higher' birth results in the fact that the lower classes are forced to work far harder for far lower rewards (which, I admit, are relative).
Just no. Please think about things first. That is not true for proper communism. Variation of labour is one of the most important aspects of communism.
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Tobbles
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Post by Tobbles on Nov 22, 2005 12:46:05 GMT -5
Again i agree with Peter. There's a saying, "its not what you know, its who you know." This basically means if you know people that are high up or richer then you get better jobs although they don't try as hard.
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on Nov 22, 2005 20:24:52 GMT -5
You guys are all living in a dreamland. This is all assuming that true communism exists, and I see abolutely NO evidence to suggest so.
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Nov 23, 2005 2:48:22 GMT -5
OK, if we want to take a look at communism in practice rather than the ideals lets have a quick run through. At the moment I do not believe we have a single true communism, at least not on the scale of whole countries. Although that saddens me, I do not see this as meaning a true communism can never exist. To take an example that may seem very strange to a lot of people, the early Christians followed most of the communist ideals to the letter. I was a Christian and in my studies of the Bible I discovered in books such as Acts an example of a working communist society. When one joined the society, one gave up all possessions and money to the community and everyone was on an equal level. For a long time this society existed without corruption until circumstance forced it to end. This was because of the common belief they shared. That is a perfectly good example of what is basically a true communism, although they obviously didn't exactly call it that at the time. EDIT : Obviously I realise this is hardly an exhaustive account of working communisms but I am really in a rush at the moment (I have to go to school right now ) so I shall get back to this when I can next get on the internet. SECOND EDIT : Nice to see someone else agrees with me as well ;D
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on Nov 23, 2005 18:50:03 GMT -5
I will never deny that Jesus was a communist, having learned a lot about him.
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Zarokachsti
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Post by Zarokachsti on Nov 24, 2005 16:16:26 GMT -5
Anyone can recieve an education, you dont have to be rich to go to school, and you dont have to be rich to go to college either, if you work hard, you are rewarded well. If you get good grades, you can get scholars to college. And communism is all based on no greed, and getting rid of greed is impossible now a days, so no it cant work. Back then greed wasnt a problem, people didnt rely on money like we do now.
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Nov 25, 2005 9:21:34 GMT -5
Greed wasn't a problem back then? Unfortunately I beg to differ with you on that point. "It is harder for a rich man to get to heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of the needle." Greed was very much around in all senses. These days greed is just more celebrated. But that doesn't mean it is an invincible force. You still don't understand about schools, learning and statistics though. Have a little think about that one.
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on Nov 25, 2005 18:51:45 GMT -5
Education is FREE! People that go to private schools are no mor elikelier to succeed than people that go to public schools.
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Zarokachsti
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Post by Zarokachsti on Nov 25, 2005 19:39:47 GMT -5
Exactly, and greed is something that will remain in the minds of every human being, whether you have greed for something small or big, you will have greed in you. It is human nature to have greed, and communism conflicts with human nature. Even you have some greed in you, everyone does, and you cant say you dont, I have greed as well, and I am sure FantasyLover does too.
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Nov 26, 2005 10:12:14 GMT -5
Education is FREE! People that go to private schools are no mor elikelier to succeed than people that go to public schools. You really believe that? Zarokachsti, of course I have greed, we all do, but we can choose to control that greed. Greed is not the most powerful human feeling, it can easily be over-ridden if the social conditions are right.
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FantasyLover
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Post by FantasyLover on Nov 26, 2005 19:40:23 GMT -5
Studies are starting to show more and more that public school teachers are better than private school teachers. Do some research.
For example, Jerry Yang, co-founder of Yahoo and one of the richest men in America, was my mom's classmate at a public school. Bill Gates made his fortune out of nothing but a computer, his willingness to work hard, and a brain. It's likely that in a communist country, their talents would have never been realized.
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Zarokachsti
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Post by Zarokachsti on Nov 27, 2005 2:33:30 GMT -5
True, because in communism you dont have the choice to start working on an idea of yours, you are stuck in a position in the community, and that is where you stay. And yes public schools are becoming much better than private schools now a days. Most people that I know that went to private schools now go to public schools, and now they are doing even better in school, and it is free, so no worries there. So I dont see why in the hell its the communities, government, or anyone else's fault that alot of people are on the street. Alot of people that are on the street are there because they are alcoholics, not because of the community, the community didnt make that person an alcoholic, the person had a beer, on turned to two, eventually it became an addiction that put that person on the street. So explain to me Peter how that is the fault of the community, government, or anyone else.
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Peter
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Post by Peter on Nov 27, 2005 5:16:49 GMT -5
Everything is the fault of community because our minds are built by the community. People become alchoholics because they see it in popular culture and maybe do it because they think it is cool, or because they have no hope. The government isn't too unhappy - they make a killing on the taxes (more so with smoking though). That is the problem with capitalism, people are too hung up with money and figures. People who have a certain position in society are unlikely to break from that position, which isn't to say that some individuals will not, and those individuals get marketed as supreme examples of how capitalism works. But look at the statistics and we see what a crap-hole capitalism really is.
Why do you guys think that? It is really not at all true, certainly far less true than in capitalism.
The schools thing, it isn't so much private as opposed to public schools, the main problem is separation of schools in richer and poorer areas and the cultures built by that.
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