xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 6, 2003 8:43:07 GMT -5
I was over on the Proboards Support forum, kinda lurking through threads, and I found one debating the authinticity of thos supposed time travler who showed up in 2000 and be the web. Appearantly he only posted for a while, then disappeared. I've read through his archived posts, and it is an interesting read. Either this guy is a time travler, or his life is a wasted one as he should be hired by hollywood being a sci-fiical consultant for movies, as he is really good. Either way it is fun nevertheless. www.johntitor.com/~Myke
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Post by SciFi on Nov 6, 2003 16:48:22 GMT -5
LOL! I read some of it. It would have been nice if he had explained how time travel works. The fact that something happened in his timeline doesn't mean it will in this timeline. As for his predictions, any one of us could have come up with even more believable ones to fit our times. His 2002 prediction didn't seem to occur. What did he mean by "IT"? Also, a large scale nuclear war could very likely make the world uninhabitable due to all the environmental effects. He mentioned that everybody's concept of their perceived reality (the illusion) will change in 2005. Actually, it changed for me last year, but I have yet to figure out what reality really is. I have an intermediate perception to tie me over, but I know its just temporary. * Twilight Zone theme song starts to play * Maybe in the coming years there will be a major revelation to "rock our worlds" that will change ALL our lives forever. * Makes note to self to go watch the new Matrix movie *
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 6, 2003 22:15:33 GMT -5
LOL SF, you do have to give the guy credit. I mean he did put on his angle for months, continuisly, then disappeared one day as promised. He made beleivers out of some, and enimies out of others, but either way, it does seem he has become an mythical legend on the web. While my discovy of his is 3 years past the fact others are still talking about him to this day. Even if I had nothing but free time everyday all day, and locked in a room with nothing but a computer w/ Internet connection, I doubt I could make the impact that John Titor guy made. BTW, even though I don't understand wha he was talking about, he seemed to have explanef the travel functions (I'm not a physist, thus didnt understand much:)), and his explination that what happens(ed) in our timeline, but not his was due to the fact that he was not traveling through time in our dimension alone, but others, this was the 'Divergence Confidence' he was speaking of. Divergence Confidence being the difference in his 'Worldline' and others. Imagine Sliders (Interdimension Travel) mixed with Qauntim Leap (Time Travel). He said he couldnt travel further ten 60 years either way, as such a journey would increase the Divergence Confidence percentage, which suld not exceed 2.5 % I think, as some Earths we desolate planets like Mars, others contained Dinosaurs, others were just dangerous, ect. I don't know, I just think he put alot of work into it, and remained continious with his posts and logic. I give him credit for that. ~Myke
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Post by SciFi on Nov 6, 2003 22:50:36 GMT -5
He definitely played his character well. However, with the time travel, how would he get back to the exact same universe/timeline that he left from? Also, what if he did something in the past to drastically change the timeline he was in? He could dramatically change the universes that his timeline is based on. He could return to a much different world from wence he came.
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 6, 2003 23:17:14 GMT -5
He said his Time traveling gravity warping machineamagigger recorded his route from his own worldline?¿?¿ How? I have no idea.
His own worldline / timeline would not be affected by his actions here in our own. If he brought a nuclear bomb here, and set it off in NYC, the events would be unknown his his own timeline - worldline, as, according to him, our timeline is a different world line from his, he is traveling through parallel Earth's, in different eras. If he killed his baby self today, he would not vansih, or cease to exist, as he only killed his doppelganger in a parallel Earth-Universe.
I would've liked it if he claimed to travel through our own Space Time, as that is more likley in the future, then for our people to not only build a time machine, but a time machine that travels interdimensially at once. However, his explinations seem to explain how this is possable, but still very unlikley. It has something to do with the singularity of his machine warping the gravity around him, which affects the nucleas of atoms, much like a blackhole does in space when it bends light and gravity, warping space and time. Supposildly Einstiens theory is right, that no one can travel faster then the speed of light, so it's logical to think that this gravity warp would do the trick.
Also 'Light' is still a mystery, the only known force in the universe that does not rely on energy. Every other thing requires energy to move it, and keep it moving, and light is also virtually unaffected by running into objects, aside from anomolies like blackholes. Imagine you harnessed the ability to ride a lightbeam. In theory, it is true that you would travel into the future, in a sence. Time would virtually stop for you, what you pecieve as a few seconds, would be a lifetime to me, according to the special theory of relitivity, BUT if you ran into anything, the light would be unaffected, while you would be smashed into smitherings. This is proven when you aim a flashlight at a wall at night. Even something as small as a grain of sand would peirce a concrete wall if it hit it as the speed of light, however light does nothing. Very interesting, light contains no energy, yet will travel forever if given the chance, and harms nothing it touches despite the extremly high velocity of which it hits. Keep in mind that heat is completly different, and will cause damage. Very interesting.
~Myke
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 7, 2003 10:40:04 GMT -5
I believe that Time Travel is possible, but its only 1 way.
You can go back in time all you want, as it has already happened, but you can only return to the exact second you left, because if you leave to go back in time at 8:45:23 seconds, you are not in the present at 8:45:24 because you are in the past, so I could only return to 8:45:23. To qoute from T2, "the future is not set", thus you can't go into the future, because the future has not existed yet.
Also, when you are in the past, sure you could make alot of money betting on sporting events, but if you change one little thing, I believe you could alter the time that you left as well. I Believe it would be like the Simpsons episode where Homer keeps getting sent back to the dinosaur era and first steps on a branch, it altered the future, then he stepped on a frog again altering the future. You change the past in any way, its going to have repercussions on the future.
Imagine if I were to go back to Sept 25th 1929, I could buy a shitload of stock and hold onto them until Sept 28th and sell them before the stock market crashed on the 29th, I would be a millionaire, but how would I get the money back into my time? It would be impossible because the money would have changed and trying to deposit that amount of money would definitly get the interest of the Federal Govt as well.
Another example, If I were to go back to say 1931 and assassinate Adolph Hitler. I just saved 6 million jews from being exterminated and millions more from battle deaths in WW2, yet I also just ruined alot of other people lives throughout the world as well, because I imagine a whole bunch of todays Grandparents first met because of WW2, and think of how many kids and grandkids that wouldn't be around today if I took out Hitler in 1931.
Anyone claiming to be from the future is a nutcase, because by doing anything to change the past is going to change the future as well. Sure we all wish we could change something in our past, but If I were to change the wrong thing, I could end up in prison in the future, could be homeless in the future or could end up being a 28 yr old virgin living with mom and dad still. Because what happened in our past, shaped the decisions we made in the future. What If I went back and changed the time I tried to kill myself by driving a stolen car into a brickwall at 60mph, to where I decided not to do it. Because I did try to kill myself at 15, I got the neccessary help that I required to overcome the problems I had at the time, but If I don't do it, I would never have recieved the help that I needed and more than likely I would have been found dead,. see the point I'm trying to make. If you change one thing in the past, you could irrevocabably harm the future.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 7, 2003 11:07:42 GMT -5
Ageed Mike, if time travel ever became possable, I'd almost resent it, although I'd be highley facinated, just for the fact that one seemingly meaningless change, could have a great impact in our current time.
I beleive travel into the future is possable, but not in a convential time traveling sence. I do beleive the speed of light will take you into the future, ala Einsteins Theroy of Relitivity, however, it is almost not much different from being frozen for a period of time, then rewaking to find 50 years have passed, but it seemed like a few seconds to you, like a night of sleep. However the difference is you are awake, and still feel time like it's only a few seconds.
Let me ask you this Mike. .. .Are you saying our present is the absolute singular present of all of time? You said someone claiming to be from the future is a nutcase, as it's impossable. However, think of this. .. .what if you and I developed a time machine, and travled back to meet our grandparents. Wouldnt our encounter be in 'thier' present, and to them, wouldnt we be from their future? So whats to say that there isnt a created future, and we are in a timelime considered to other timelines as the past. If our future selves can meet our grandparents in thier future, whats to stop our kids growing up in our present, then taveling back to Nov. 7, 2003, and meeting us. Wouldnt we encounter our grown up children from the future sometime today, in the present?
~Myke
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 7, 2003 12:05:19 GMT -5
I meant to say this guy is a nutcase. His facts are to non specific and vague to make me believe he is from the future. Also a true time traveler more than likely would not try to change the past either, thus wouldn't alter or say anything and would just blend in. Look at all the movies that relate to time travel, very few have the people come back and say they are from the future, they try to blend in and not be noticed. If I was trapped in the past, I would have what I had at the time and then try to make a living in whatever timeframe I was existing in at the time. If there was no hope of getting back to my normal time, I wouldn't get married or have kids, because that would alter the future to much. What if the woman I married was supposed to marry someone else who had a kid that invented something, guess what, that kid will never exist, and that invention may not come around when it was supposed to do. What if I married Abraham Lincolns mother, before his dad ever met her, guess what, the 16th President of the United States wouldn;t be Abraham Lincoln, it would be someone else completely, and who knows whether the Civil War would have ended in 1865 or not, or even whether it had started at all in 1861. Imagine the USA today with never going through the civil war.
Sure you and I could go back in time and talk to our grnadparents back in the 30's and 40's, but I wouldn't, because just talking to them could change the future.
There is no way of going into the future at all. NONE. The future is not written and has not happened. If it was possible to time travel, you cannot go where time has not occured yet. Time has no meaning until it occurs. The currant time here right now is 11:06am CST, no one knows what I will be doing at 11:06 am CST on November 7, 2005 as it has not occured yet. Now I could go back in time to 11:06am CST November 7,2003 now as it has been a minute, or I could go back to 11:06am November 7, 1993 and go back to New Recruit Building 2 at Great Lakes Naval Station, Chicago Illinois as thats where I was at at 11:06 am November 7, 1993, but I can't go to 11:06am November 7, 2004 because that date has not occured yet. What I do that day has not been decided by myself yet, because I do not know what could be going on that day yet. Will I be in class, or will one of my kids be sick, or will I be dead? No one knows yet.
To prove he is a nutcase I'll answer this question for him.
Who won the Super Bowl in 2001?
I do not answer questions like this. Although I don't really know the motivation for the question.I can guess. If a time traveler had knowledge of your future, and you could only ask one question, would this be it? Besides, can you tell me if it rained in New York on June 4th 1932? You are from their future so should you know that?
It did rain in New York on July 4th, 1932. I know because I looked it up on the internet and went through an archive site to get the info. If in 2036 the net is still as big as it is now(like he claims) then he woul;d be able to easily look the answer up like I did and have the answer in 10 seconds(sooner in his time as it would be a faster search engine more than likely)
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 7, 2003 20:48:05 GMT -5
I agree with many of your points Mike. I'd be very afraid if Time Travel was possable. Remember what Biff did on Back to the Future II? When his old self from the 21'st centuray gave his teen self a sports almanac in the 1950's? Thus Biff got rich, and 1985 was all messed up when Marty returned. Same w/ Timecop, the evil senater was making plans so he would be president in the future. I would bearly utter a sound if I was in the past, not to mess things up.
However I must disagree with you on traveling into the future. I agree, the future is not set, anything cna change. Tomorrow I can sign up for law school, and get Osama bin Laden's name cleared (Extreme, but an extreme example) or I could go throw myself in front of traffic and die, either way our future is changed. However. .. .you do agree that we can travel into the past. Let's say I do, and travel back to my time, as we agreed. What if I brought back JFK from the 60's? He would have traveled into the future as he knows it. Given, it is not our future. My point is, what if our grown up kids came to see us today, from 2036, and decided to bring us back with them, to avoid a holocost of disease that kills us in 2007. Even though we are from thier past, we will travel into our future. If our space time continuum was the singularity of a universal present, then only we could travel into the past, and no future others could travel back to our time. I donot think our 'present' is the quantim present. Our present is the same as the present we had in our mind 4 days ago, and we agree that we can travel back to 4 days ago. Both of us would jump up and down screaming that it was the present back then, despite it being the present now. All 4 of our 2 selves would be right, as the present is in the eye of the eye of the beholder in his or her given space time continuum
~Myke
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 7, 2003 20:56:17 GMT -5
Oh, I forgot to add. .. .The supposed time travler could not acess his internet from 2036 as he was in the year 2000 on a computer from that time. .. .
~Myke
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 8, 2003 10:07:52 GMT -5
Myke, If I were to travel back in time, and people wanted to know the future, I wouldn't be as vague as he has been.
Notice he didn't go into specifics at all and even stated that the US will have another civil war that goes along the way the 2000 Presidential elections went.
Look at the map on the site you provided.
Do you notice the one thing wrong with the map? Where are the other candidates? Why doesn't the name of that 3rd party candidate show up in Florida(the counties where he beat both Bush and Gore because of the idiotic voters not knowing how to vote), so according to that map, Gore won those counties, even though he didn't. Also that map states that the county I live in went to Bush by 10-10%. Thats wrong. My county was heavily Al Gore. The map is highly inacurate.
He claims the Chinese launching a man into space is going to start problems. Only problem with that, the Chinese stated in 1998, that they were going to have a man in space before the end of 2003, a 5 year window, guess what, this time traveler used info that was already known to predict the Chinese were going to go into space. (again using archives of various newpapers)
The EU has always wanted nuclear weapons as well. They have been wanting them ever since the EU was founded, they never went about gaining them because the US has nukes in the region already, now they want to have them again because the US has pulled 90% of them out of the EU region because of treaty's with Russia. How shocking is that? Not very, again public knowledge.
But the biggest crock of shit the guy stated was this little gem
The idiot forgot to mention that that could never happen again. According to him, the banking sytem is localized. Last time that this country had that, counterfeiting ran rampant, thats why the banking became centralized, to have every one in this country on one currancy. Notice after the civil war, the first thing that was done was to get the south back on the Federal money system, thus eliminating the confederate greenbacks that were printed. Why? Because they wanted everyuone on the same system when it comes to money, its the only way to keep the US going. If every region has its own system of money, the US would never survive.
Another fine example of him predicting the future based on public knowledge is this
WELL DUH. its been common knowledge since 1998 that a computer bought one day is obsolete within 6 months. Hydrogen Fuel Cells, both Bush and Gore talked about that while campaigning in 1999 for the 2000 elections, so again public knowledge used to say something about the future. The University of California stated in 1996 that they had developed a more efficient solar cell that retains 45% more of the absorbed heat then the currant(1996 levels) cells did. Guess what, those cells are now used in everything. And the University of California, San Diego stated last year that they may have made those same cells more efficiant yet. Technology is always changing, so what is state of the art today is generally obsolete within a year. When the Space Shuttle Columbia lifted off in 1981, the computer systems in it were already obsolete according to NASA, but it would take way to much money to continually keep updating the computer systems, so they just keep them as is, as its easier to replace the parts as they break, because its not as expensive to purchase the parts now.
And Myke, let me hope you understand this point I am trying to make about the future.
I right now, sitting ere typing this, cannot go 20 minutes into the future to see if this post gets a response because this response has not been posted yet(as of me typing that line, it exists as soon as I click post). In you view, you could probably already have responded to my post even before it is posted as travelling forward into the future from the currant present is possible, which it isn't, because this post doesn't yet exist until I hit the post button.
Now if you and I were to go back in time to the past, we could only come forward to the point we left, because we didn't exist in the future past the time we left. If we left at 9:11am CST and went back 4 days ago, and stayed aroundf for a week, the only way we could come baclk to the future would be to arrive at 9:11am CST 11/8/2003, not one second farther, because we did not exist in the currant at 9:12am CST 11/8/03 because we were in the past then.
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xkamelx
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 8, 2003 11:41:30 GMT -5
I right now, sitting ere typing this, cannot go 20 minutes into the future to see if this post gets a response because this response has not been posted yet(as of me typing that line, it exists as soon as I click post). In you view, you could probably already have responded to my post even before it is posted as travelling forward into the future from the currant present is possible, which it isn't, because this post doesn't yet exist until I hit the post button. Now if you and I were to go back in time to the past, we could only come forward to the point we left, because we didn't exist in the future past the time we left. If we left at 9:11am CST and went back 4 days ago, and stayed aroundf for a week, the only way we could come baclk to the future would be to arrive at 9:11am CST 11/8/2003, not one second farther, because we did not exist in the currant at 9:12am CST 11/8/03 because we were in the past then. Here's what I'm saying, It is aprox 11:34 AM EST- 10:34 AM CST. Your post is about an hour old now. I'm going to take the time machine we invented, and travel back an hour into the past, where you were typing that the post didnt exist yet. However, from my perspective, it does exist. I ask you to come back to my present with me, and you agree, so I bring you back to 10:34 AM CST, my origin of the present, thus you are now in the future. True your post would not exist if I stopped you from making it, BUT what if I came back and got you 6 years ago, before we met. I'd know who you are, but you wouldnt know me. I could bring you into the future, my present, and show you a post of yours that you havent wrote for 6 years, actually hundreds of posts that you havent even created yet. The only thing that would stop it is maybe a change in your psyche brought on by the time travel experience, but I'm sure there would be at least one post you havent even created yet. It's almost a temporal paradox, as I agree, the future is not set. You said tha a few days ago, and while I agreed then, what if I traveled back to a few days ago. While you beleive you are acting freely of your own will, and for all intents and purposes you were, I couldve kep a log to show you your every move over the past several days, so in a sence our future is set, but then you'd know what you was going to do, and do something different, thus creating a new future. I could travel back to 1930 and warn Germany about Hitler, but they would say the future isnt set, although they are correct, odds are things would turn out like they did, thus thier future has already been lived in anohther timeline. I could bring one of those Germans back to 2003, just as one of our time travling kids could bring one of us back to 2037, the present to them, the future to us. I do agre with your points on the John Time TRavler, alot of what he said is unlikley, most of wich is his way of time travel, not just to other times, but parallel worlds, two technologies in one? Unlikley, ecspecially in our lifetime. ~Myke
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 8, 2003 12:10:34 GMT -5
I see your point. Lets just agree to disagree on this
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Post by xkamelx on Nov 8, 2003 14:24:54 GMT -5
The thing is, I see your point too, and had to stop a few times to rethink my points, to make sure they made sence and didnt conterdict what I was saying It wouldnt suprise me to find that either of us right, or in a latter sence, we are both right, even though thats a paradox. ~Myke
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Post by DeepSPace9 on Nov 8, 2003 14:45:10 GMT -5
I see your point, and maybe the reason I disagree so much is that I'm thinking 2 dimensinally, and not 3rd dimensionally like you are. Youn are the same way, just thinking 3rd not 2nd To be honest there is no way to find out who is right until the damn machine is built and tested by both of us Maybe after the wife moves to Vegas and I finish school will I attempt to build the machine.
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