DurhamRed
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Post by DurhamRed on Mar 16, 2007 19:00:21 GMT -5
I believe in the comfort a religious belief can bring, I would like to believe in GOD but my mind keeps swinging between believing and not believing...I'm open to persuasion.
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The Doctor
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 16, 2007 19:06:08 GMT -5
So you're an agnostic then?
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DurhamRed
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2000AD Vamp un-dead & lovin it!
Go on let me have just one bite!
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Post by DurhamRed on Mar 16, 2007 19:09:33 GMT -5
Hahaha! to be honest I'm not sure what I am ;D
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The Doctor
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 17, 2007 5:25:31 GMT -5
Agnostic. If you're not sure whether you believe or not you're an agnostic.
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DurhamRed
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Post by DurhamRed on Mar 17, 2007 10:32:35 GMT -5
mmm its possible after all my mother is an atheist and my father's a fallen Catholic ( he fell outa favour when he married my mother pmsl...)
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eninqueenubet
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Post by eninqueenubet on Mar 20, 2007 23:12:51 GMT -5
EVERYTHING that happens in this world is a miracle - but a miracle hidden by nature. God made a world with rules called nature, and even though sometimes He breaks them, He likes to keep as much within its boundaries as possible. here are some miracles that are hidden behind "nature" or "coincidence": the jewish nation surviving from waaaaaaay back throughout all the years, and has watched all the greatest empires fall to the archeologists as they still survive and thrive. the fact that the body works - whoever says this is not a miracle is.... ok i wont say it, but this is PRETTY obviously AMAZING. i'm learning biology now - its CRAZZZZY how much could and SHOULD go wrong but doesn't - according to probability, most of the world's population should have downs syndrome or some other critical or fatal mutation in their bodies. but of course, its just a coincidence that we're all overall perfect. i could say right now at least seven more off the top of my head but i decided not to say any of them because i know all those things people would naiively say "oh come on, it's not probable but its POSSIBLE..." well duh of course it's possible cuz it HAPPENED but it didnt happen all by itself... some things are so coincidental they basically prove that God exists, but people still decide to deny... anyway, there have been many archeological and SCIENTIFIC things that have been discvered and tests that have been done that have made scientists realize that there is a God, but of course this is kept verrrry on the down low for example - true story by the way - a group of major jewish scientists got together with some major rabbis for a week - their purpose was to convince to the other side their view of God's existence - the rabbis tried to prove that He existed, and the scientists would try to prove that He didn't. After the week was over and countless debates had been discussed and argued, the scientists were brought to admit that despite all their work throughout the years, they realized that God did exists. But they went over to the rabbis after the week and told them "You know, we're still not going to keep anything He says right??? It's uh, too hard..." If you believe in God it gives you some pressure that now, you have to listen to Him. Of course scientists have an extra motive - if they admit that He exists, all their life's work goes down the drains, as well as the field of study that they love. That's why they fight so hard to prove miracles as scientific, instead of just letting themselves believe what is right infront of their noses. go hide behind your scientific theories the·o·ry "a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact." - dictionary.com theories have been proven wrong many times before. don't think you know everything.
I believe in the comfort a religious belief can bring, I would like to believe in GOD but my mind keeps swinging between believing and not believing...I'm open to persuasion. lol. those who don't believe are always trying to find excuses as to why they don't believe. those who do just KNOW that they're right - it makes sense. if you don't believe (and i guess that many have been able to supress this after time and hard work, but..) your inner subconcious is still telling you you're wrong, so you always feel that you have to prove to everybody that He doesn't exist - every time a new "proof" comes up, you jump on it with your life - cuz now you have something else to help convince YOU. those who believe are at peace with this,; they just KNOW it.
EDIT: I have realized that this comment can be very controversial and might be very wrong... but i'll just keep it with this edit. don't argue with this one, cuz i know i'm probably wrong about this particular thing because i'm coming from one side.
I mean ALL religions were CREATED by HUMANS.
here's a little story - wait it through, I have a point here =) - A man named Moses goes up to a mountain and recieves the Bible from God. But he is the messenger who stands at the top of the mountain, while the entire nation waits at the foot and watches in amazement as the thunder and lighting roar down from the heavens, and God commands the first two commnadments, but the entire nation dies in fright and awe, and each time He awakens them. The third to the last commandment Moses says. Now all this is written down on a scroll that Moses got from God while he was on the mountain. He brings the scoll down and commands the nation to teach the scroll to their children and strictly follow all the laws that are written in it, because it was given to them by God. No one has any complaints, and they all do exactly as God tells them.
second scenario: A man comes to some people and says "Hey look what I have, a book from God that orders me to make a religion. Come join me!" So the people look at each other and say, sure why not? So they take on all the rules and laws of this bible, and lie that they really were at the foot of the mountain with all the thunder and lighting, and they follow all the rules and teach it to their kids (side note: have you ever seen really religious jews? what they do is all part of their religion, not just because they want to d it - it's a really hard religion to keep and follow so well! there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of laws!) Now not ONE of these people decides after many many years of following laws that they know have no source gets up and reveals the truth - that this is all fake - or leaves a special message in their will or what not to let their later decendants know that it isn't true. They all stay true to this religion of lies, every single one. You know, up till the 18th or 19th century or so, all Jews were religious - no such thing as reform and modern and all the rest. The Jews just got caught up in the world around them that they left - their leaving was NOT because they "knew the religion was a fraud and completely made up by Moses." no. No one ever left because of this. One may argue tht maybe rare people throughout the centuries HAVE said said this, but no one, i can assure you, has brought any sort of proof or something that can be twisted to be proof.
conclusion: both these scenarios shatter a sort of nature - one nature as in the way we think of the term, and nature as in human nature. so basically, it's just a matter of picking between which nature was broken. If you don't think either of these stories is the case, what do you think is? and does your story really make sense, or are you just trying to create something up from the top of your head??
Over the time I've been gone, I've come to rediscover God, I do believe in him, but now I simply believe, I'm not after any of that worship stuff, etc. I believe I've reached an accord with God, I'll believe, as long as I don't have to pray, worship, do all that stuff. But he never has to help me, besides, I'd never ask for his help anyway. So I do believe in god, i just don't believe in the ethical side of him. i have a question. so you believe in him, but if you don't listen to what he tells you to do... then isn't that like denying him?
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The Doctor
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 21, 2007 10:45:34 GMT -5
There's no need to omit the "o" from god. All religions are human creations, end of. So is god. A character invented by primitive humans to explain the then unexplainable (today these events have a scientific explination), and has been retained as we go on. There is no proof for the existence of god, so thus I for one shall deny it all my life. I mean, worship some thing that doesn't even exist? No wonder there are more and more athiests springing up all the time! Scientific rationalism. Plus it's just plain narrow mindedness to reject things when they have solid scientific evidence to back them up. Furthermore, scientific discoveries more often than not help to disprove god. Edit: Just merged your triple post by the way.
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eninqueenubet
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Post by eninqueenubet on Mar 21, 2007 20:39:44 GMT -5
To that I say what I said before - He always leaves an opening for people to be able to blame it all on nature - or else what would be the test in believing in Him? If people couldn't scientifcally shrug Him off, then basically everyone would believe in Him, and there would be no point in even commanding people to believe in him, and then rewarding them for it. He made a world of nature, and He used to do open miracles, but after the destruction of the jew's temple He resorted to hiding miracles behind nature. There is no proof for the existence of god, so thus I for one shall deny it all my life. Did you read my whole post? I mentioned how scientific theories are not proof. Just theories. Since these theories are the only ones at this point to explain something, and they make sense, these theories are accepted as cold hard fact. Things fall down, not up, is a scientific fact. The rest, if it's called a scientific theory, it's just a theory - a guess, an idea. Plus it's just plain narrow mindedness to reject things when they have solid scientific evidence to back them up. We don't just deny the discoveries. We explain them according to what we believe. People come up with all this scienific evidence saying "ha! take that! I told you all that God doesn't exist!" and then when we answer and say - "This evidence doesn't prove your point, because it still works with ours, and this is how..." but they ignore the explanations and smugly say to themselves "My evidence proved it! They're just denying it..." God is true so no matter what scientific thing comes up, He works with that. Then again, there can be some scientific theories that completely disprove Him. I wonder why they're still theories... The Big Bang never happened. That was some persuasive science fiction lunatic who made that up. You think that's less crazy than the idea of God? Evolution... that's another story that I don't know enough about, only enough to mention. Notice how both these examples are THEORIES. They are not cold hard fact. By the way - one common explanation of dinosaurs and how the world is so old if in bible years it is only 5767 right now is that 1. God created the world 9 times and each time He destroyed it. Then finally, this time He didn't, but we still have the remains of the other worlds left (This could also explain prehistoric people) or 2. These were the animals of the time before the Flood. The reason the world was destroyed at this time was because all the people were so evil to each other, and so immoral, that God couldn't take it. They were so immoral that not only did they breed two diferent breeds of the same animal together, but they breeded different animals entirely, together. These are the dinosaurs. When Noah built the ark, he as only allowed to bring the pure animals on board. Hence all the dinosaurs died out within a matter of weeks, all together. it rained for 40 days and noghts, and it wasnt cold rainwater, it was BOILING hot - it was raining down burning heat from the sky, and from the sea, underwater volcanos were forned and spewed forth from there. No wonder everthing just died out all of a sudden. Everybody - it all fits. There is an explanation for everything. Science does NOT disprove God, it helps explain Him.
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Tobbles
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Post by Tobbles on Mar 22, 2007 5:52:34 GMT -5
I'm rather much with The Doctor and strongly disagree about God. Belief depends on just taking what you hear. In order for me to believe I need solid proof such as actually seeing God. I will never believe anything written in the bible. To me it's just a very creative bunch of stories.
You seem like a Christian. I really big question that I have is which religion is the correct one? Can you prove your own religion and disprove others? Surely every religion isn't the correct one.
Another thing you said he only let the pure animals on the boat. No animals are pure or in pure. Animals work on instinct. If they need to eat another animal then that's what they got to do.
God gave us free will. Do we really have free will? Christians have to believe in him or suffer the consequences. That seems to be working more on people's fear than actually wanting to pray for him.
"A believer is a bird in a cage. A freethinker is an eagle parting the clouds with tireless wing."
Those are my views. But everyone has the right to believe and disbelieve.
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The Doctor
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Post by The Doctor on Mar 22, 2007 10:52:36 GMT -5
To that I say what I said before - He always leaves an opening for people to be able to blame it all on nature - or else what would be the test in believing in Him? If people couldn't scientifcally shrug Him off, then basically everyone would believe in Him, and there would be no point in even commanding people to believe in him, and then rewarding them for it. He made a world of nature, and He used to do open miracles, but after the destruction of the jew's temple He resorted to hiding miracles behind nature. There is no proof for the existence of god, so thus I for one shall deny it all my life. Did you read my whole post? I mentioned how scientific theories are not proof. Just theories. Since these theories are the only ones at this point to explain something, and they make sense, these theories are accepted as cold hard fact. Things fall down, not up, is a scientific fact. The rest, if it's called a scientific theory, it's just a theory - a guess, an idea. Plus it's just plain narrow mindedness to reject things when they have solid scientific evidence to back them up. We don't just deny the discoveries. We explain them according to what we believe. People come up with all this scienific evidence saying "ha! take that! I told you all that God doesn't exist!" and then when we answer and say - "This evidence doesn't prove your point, because it still works with ours, and this is how..." but they ignore the explanations and smugly say to themselves "My evidence proved it! They're just denying it..." God is true so no matter what scientific thing comes up, He works with that. Then again, there can be some scientific theories that completely disprove Him. I wonder why they're still theories... The Big Bang never happened. That was some persuasive science fiction lunatic who made that up. You think that's less crazy than the idea of God? Evolution... that's another story that I don't know enough about, only enough to mention. Notice how both these examples are THEORIES. They are not cold hard fact. By the way - one common explanation of dinosaurs and how the world is so old if in bible years it is only 5767 right now is that 1. God created the world 9 times and each time He destroyed it. Then finally, this time He didn't, but we still have the remains of the other worlds left (This could also explain prehistoric people) or 2. These were the animals of the time before the Flood. The reason the world was destroyed at this time was because all the people were so evil to each other, and so immoral, that God couldn't take it. They were so immoral that not only did they breed two diferent breeds of the same animal together, but they breeded different animals entirely, together. These are the dinosaurs. When Noah built the ark, he as only allowed to bring the pure animals on board. Hence all the dinosaurs died out within a matter of weeks, all together. it rained for 40 days and noghts, and it wasnt cold rainwater, it was BOILING hot - it was raining down burning heat from the sky, and from the sea, underwater volcanos were forned and spewed forth from there. No wonder everthing just died out all of a sudden. Everybody - it all fits. There is an explanation for everything. Science does NOT disprove God, it helps explain Him. On that last remark, I must disagree strongly. Science is not there for the service of religion, but to find out the facts, and if science does disprove god, which seems very likely, then you're going to be in trouble. Plus, can I detect a hint of narrowmindedness and slight fustration? Hmm? Furthermore, it has been proven that the flood didn't happen, along with the garden of Eden and various other parts of the bible. And yes, I did read your post, but obviously you didn't read mine. Where exactly did I say that theories disprove god, hmm? Bit of a hypocrite there, you tell people to read your post, yet you don't read theirs? Hmm? Finally: God didn't create the world as it says in the Bible, it happened as a result of an old star going nova, its materials colliding with a dust cloud and nebula. Then, all that material got together in orbit of the young star that is now the sun. Over time (and this was roughly 4.5 thousand-million years ago), the planets formed and Earth, by chance, developed the right conditions for life. So, over millions of years these basic lifeforms soon evolved into what is here today. Concise Edition
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