Oliver
Admiral
Shine On You Temporal Diamond
I've been walking for ages, yet I haven't moved a smegging inch!
Posts: 2,779
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Post by Oliver on Oct 23, 2005 4:36:08 GMT -5
Before I begin, let me remind you all that your beliefs are your own, please nobody try shut down another's opinion. Thankyou ;D
Here's a question I like asking. Do you believe in God?
Well, me, no I don't. Frankly, I don't want to believe in God. I'm Catholic, but I'm not proud of it. I'd tell my parents I don't believe any more if I knew they wouldn't go ballistic. I'm not proud to say "I love God" because frankly I don't give a s*#t about him.
Why? Because. I'm sick of people praying all the time. People asking God for help in their bad times. When I'm down and out, I just talk to myself or listen to music or play guitar. I don't ask anyone for help, I just suck it up. When my friend commited suicide, I didn't ask anyone to help me, I just took it.
Also, I've read lots of the bible, and most of it is just total rubbish. At one stage it reads "we will trust in you God, and we will not be afraid" and then another section it reads "we will fear you God, becuse you are all powerful". Come on?
Catholicism is mostly hyprocritical. People always telling me God is great, he loves us all. If he really loves us, then why does he punish so many? Ok, so they'll be rewarded in heaven. But most people can't take the punishment, and they commit suicide. Like my friend. Isn't suicide a mortal sin?
P.s. I also have a lot of other reasons, (lots) but I'll post them later as the topic develops.
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Post by Chris3123 on Oct 23, 2005 20:25:41 GMT -5
Yes, I do.
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Post by aion on Oct 24, 2005 17:31:44 GMT -5
I'm an atheist. So no I don't believe in a god. I think that religion makes sense given cultural history and human nature. I have nothing against people who are religious. Its just in my own time and observation of everything within my scope the existence of God really make no logical sense. So thats what I hold to.
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oblivion
Admiral
Keeper of the Chapa'i
Posts: 1,844
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Post by oblivion on Oct 24, 2005 20:02:19 GMT -5
I'm an agnostic pantheist. I don't feel convinced there is a God, but I like to think there is one -- or actually that the Divine is spread throughout the Cosmos. Part of every star, every bacterium, every grain of sand. All infused with an immanent Divine that sleeps, separated into tiny motes of consciousness. But that can, or could coalesce into something more if/when the circumstances are ripe.
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Oliver
Admiral
Shine On You Temporal Diamond
I've been walking for ages, yet I haven't moved a smegging inch!
Posts: 2,779
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Post by Oliver on Oct 25, 2005 4:25:55 GMT -5
Explanation why please... unless you don't want to ;D I don't think there are any Gods. I simply believe what my 5 senses let me believe: If I can touch it, smell it, see it, hear it, or taste it, I believe it. I can't see, hear, taste, smell or see God. And please, ffs, DON'T tell me "we see God when some guy welcomes the poor man into his house" or "we see God when students say no to drugs and yes to study" or some other crap like it. It drives me insane! I see God when he killed thousands of people on Boxing Day last year. I see God when volcanos erupt, earthquakes rip the earth in half, tornados blast whole cities to hell.
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oblivion
Admiral
Keeper of the Chapa'i
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Post by oblivion on Oct 25, 2005 11:06:52 GMT -5
Oliver, if you're asking about the Judeo-Christian Yahweh, my answer would have to be "no".
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Post by zapphnath on Oct 25, 2005 14:25:39 GMT -5
I, also, am a non-beliver, for myriad reasons. One would be the way that nature, itself, works. Take, for instance, how a pride will take down a gazelle and start tearing into its flesh while it's still alive, screaming and writhing. To think that a being, an entity, made a concious decision to make the world work that way is unacceptable. I can accept that it's just the natural way of things but not that someone chose to make it so. If there is a GOD, he is a sick, sadistic s.o.b. who deserves condemnation, not praise. By the same token, however, I can see how religeon is necessary. There are, and have been, many for whom the threat of eternal damnation is the ONLY thing that stops them from hurting or killing others. Then again, throughout the last 2000 years, more people have died, in the most hideous ways imaginable, in the name of the Christian GOD than for all other reasons, combined. (I.E., the Holy Wars, the various Inquisitions, witch-hunts, "ethnic cleansing", etc.). 'Nuff sed!
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Oliver
Admiral
Shine On You Temporal Diamond
I've been walking for ages, yet I haven't moved a smegging inch!
Posts: 2,779
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Post by Oliver on Oct 26, 2005 3:50:21 GMT -5
Oliver, if you're asking about the Judeo-Christian Yahweh, my answer would have to be "no". I don't even know what you're talking about I must agree with you Zapp. God is a sicko. He's a total arrogant fu*$k. Seriously, what kind of up-himself loser says "believe in me, only me, or I will punish you". What a loser! If I was a God, I'd just say "believe what you want to believe" If you ask me, the world doesn't need religion. Ok, so it gives us hope. But it's false hope! Do you really think you could make 1 billion people would really believe? Trust me, a lot of people have told me they doubt. How can it be hope if there's doubt?
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Peter
Lt Commander
Everything is relative...
Posts: 255
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Post by Peter on Oct 26, 2005 10:59:12 GMT -5
I personally have no problem with religion. If people wish to believe some supernatural being is looking out for them, it can help make their life more bearable. It can bring joy, also, so what is wrong with that? False hope is better than no hope. Also, I don't get how you keep denying that you believe in any deity while saying simultaneously that you think the deity is 'a sicko'. How can a non-existent deity be a sicko? If you take the bad you also have to remember the good too, and vice versa. Things are balanced, good and bad, order and entropy, birth and death. I don't believe, though I used to, but belief is a powerful comfort for many people.
The Judeo-Christian Yahweh, for reference, is the God that Christians and Jews believe in, Jehovah of the Old Testament.
I personally find it impossible to believe in anything more than there is. My thoughts - mere physical pathways in my brain, controlled by organs that tell me what is happening around me. I am nothing. The universe is nothing.
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Post by ==XerXes== on Oct 26, 2005 14:44:28 GMT -5
i dunno if i believe in god, i'm doing biosceinces at uni and after studying some of the topics, i wonder if life was just a coincidence...stuff like the dinos existence r not mentioned in the bible among other interesting but significant scientific facts. evolution seems to make a lot more sense than just 2 people appearing on earth out of the blue, genetics plays in important part in all this with it's secrets of life !!! but then i would rather believe in Old Testaments,as there are some historical evidence, that can prove that biblic wars did infact happen...so it can be confusing. religion makes war!! i don't like the idea of many different gods for each cultures,that's why there's no peace these days, and i don't like being a pawn in a battle between god and the devil !!!
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Oliver
Admiral
Shine On You Temporal Diamond
I've been walking for ages, yet I haven't moved a smegging inch!
Posts: 2,779
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Post by Oliver on Oct 28, 2005 1:55:57 GMT -5
I personally have no problem with religion. If people wish to believe some supernatural being is looking out for them, it can help make their life more bearable. It can bring joy, also, so what is wrong with that? False hope is better than no hope. Also, I don't get how you keep denying that you believe in any deity while saying simultaneously that you think the deity is 'a sicko'. How can a non-existent deity be a sicko? If you take the bad you also have to remember the good too, and vice versa. Things are balanced, good and bad, order and entropy, birth and death. I don't believe, though I used to, but belief is a powerful comfort for many people. The Judeo-Christian Yahweh, for reference, is the God that Christians and Jews believe in, Jehovah of the Old Testament. I personally find it impossible to believe in anything more than there is. My thoughts - mere physical pathways in my brain, controlled by organs that tell me what is happening around me. I am nothing. The universe is nothing. Well so many people are trying to tell me he does exist. Oh yeah, apparently somewhere in the bible it says "when the world is racked with tornados, landslides, etc, it will be the end" so I think that means the end of the world is coming soon. Maybe for some people
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Peter
Lt Commander
Everything is relative...
Posts: 255
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Post by Peter on Oct 28, 2005 6:40:55 GMT -5
Yeah you have to be careful though, if you are too aggressively atheist it is just as bad as trying to force your religion on people. Also, the Bible does say about the end of the world that when many wars and natural disasters begin to happen then the end will be near. Which funnily enough looks a lot like the situation right now...
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Oliver
Admiral
Shine On You Temporal Diamond
I've been walking for ages, yet I haven't moved a smegging inch!
Posts: 2,779
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Post by Oliver on Oct 28, 2005 20:18:44 GMT -5
I guess you're right, I sometimes can get pretty agressive when it comes to religious debating. I don't generalise however, well at least I try not to, if I do, then I'm sorry. But about 90% of the catholic people I know insist that I believe in God and follow his ways and that he is great etc. It drives me nuts sometimes.
Why should we praise God for doing one measly little thing like create the universe some 400 billion years ago? What's he done so great since then? If Jesus is real, then I think he should get some credit. But then again, if it was my duty to go around healing people, I'd do it. He wasn't a great person because he healed people. If I could do that, I would. He was great because he made the ultimate sacrifice. If he is real, then I respect that.
But that is another thing. Ok, so he suffered for us. When I went to church with my parents on Good Friday, I saw plenty of people crying when they went up to touch the statue of Jesus. FFS, it make me boil. Dunno why, but some people are just idiots!
Would you go to a war memorial and cry for every name on the wall? No, because you never met those people. So why cry over Jesus, some bloke who died 2000 years ago? You never knew him. He might have been a total asshole for all we know. Ok, he died for us. So did millions of people in the trenches in WW1. So did millions of people across whole nations, in the air, on the land and under the sea during WW2 because some one-nut loony killed millions of innocent people and because some Japanese cockhead decided to bomb the hell out of America. Go and cry for them while you're still wiping the tears away about Jesus.
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SunRay
Jr Lieutenant
Saving the World in Spandex and Looking Good while dooin it
Posts: 109
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Post by SunRay on Oct 31, 2005 2:08:05 GMT -5
Ill say this......The movie StarGate posed the question best imho. What constitutes a God? Someone with more power than you have understanding. Thats how I see it. If I show up to a planet full of cave dwelling primitives and whip out my Bic lighter, I can summon fire and most likely a god. At least from the primitives PoV. Or am I just some bloke with more tech than your feeble mind can comprehend. Religion is a crutch, plain & simple. An excuse for humans to rationalize their cruelty. "Do onto others as you would have...yeah yeah yeah. Those that spout that crap are usually the 1st to cut your throat to better themselves in some fashion. Ive seen 1st hand the devote that go to church every sunday, aslo kick another human when down. Ive seen gangbangers with tattooes of christ somewhere on their body put bullets into another man. Why is it better for a woman to yell fire when in need of help, instead of yelling help? Because humans suck as a whole, and God is an excuse to help rationalize their abhorrent behaviour. Plain and simple. Now I was born into a coven, yet had to go to church to appease my grandparents at the time. ( Like I understood then.) Thnx to that sunday school and the pedantic answers the nun gave me about heaven, I started to search out my own answers to Life Universe and Everything. ( Boy am I a SciFi junkie. I'll use alot more SciFi terms as this goes on.) I like what oblivion had to say, but have my own twist to it all. Im a Gnostic if a label has to be placed on my forehead. I believe in a higher power but have yet to have all my questions answered. So Ill keep searching till Im satisfied, which will prob be never even after death. I believe we as humans are not native to this planet. ( Erich von Daniken) I believe we are all Star Stuff, made from the heart of the cosmos. ( B5 anyone??) The question isnt "Is there life out there. It's "Where isnt there life" (Star Trek) Jesus was half alien ( all me this time) Thats right, I say Jesus was some half alien drunkin stoned rebel of his day. That hung out with his 12 party animal buddies and his groupie hooker. It says in the bible he rebeled against the status quo and had visions in the cow field. ( what grows on cow patties? ) He also commited suicide, yet Its a sin? ? (read the bible. When on the cross he ask to drink of the wine. History has shown that the romans spiked the wine with 2 very deadly poisons. It was a way to relieve the suffering, Instead of staying on the cross drowning in one's own blood baking in the sun while starving for food and water.) Now for being half alien. Can we not inseminate woman now, as if peeps traveling from other stars couldnt. Voices from the heavens, smacks of speakers in the clouds. Burning bushes remind me of lasers from the ship in the skies. I could go on, but you get the point. Maybe George Carlin has it right by praying to Joe Pesci....It cant hurt. I'd rather have faith in myself and stand apart from the cattle. The cattle that listen to MEN telling them what is wrong or right and then destroys a youngsters life by violating them. To have fear in an imaginary mythical father figure that says worship me or I shall smite thee sounds like insanity to me. But when there are enough crazies that believe in the same thing, guess that makes them the norm. And if they are such, I am proud to be abnormal when in reference to them. There are forces at work that have manipulated man for a long time now. And man has helped and allowed it to happen. We are our own predator, as we are the top of the food chain. We are animals that can count. Maybe Agent Smith said it best..."We are a virus upon the planet." Enough blood has been spilt in the name of the gods ( pick 1, as there are many) 1 nation can have people starving, and another has more than enough to spread around, yet throws it away. I do believe that whatever your belief is, helps determine where your soul ( use whatever euphemism you prefer.) goes. If you believe in heaven or hell, than by your beliefs and the way you have lived your life is where you will go. I have had my life flash more times than I care to count. Your bank account isnt what you see. The deeds you have done, good or bad is what you re experience. So whether good or bad, if you can live with yourself with the actions you perform. than you are content with life. If you can screw over peeps and be happy with ones own self, than good for you. I am happy if I havent screwed over anyone or killed them for being self centered egotist, then I know I can put my head on my pillow with a clear conscience. And remember......opinions are like birthdays and assholes. Everyone has one. just seems there are more Assholes with even more opinions than there are birthdays. Believe in God? I AM A GOD. I manipulate the universe around me with the tools on hand to better suit my needs. Some call this cheating. I call them losers. Do I know everything......YES. I just cant remember it all at once. Bad filing system.
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oblivion
Admiral
Keeper of the Chapa'i
Posts: 1,844
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Post by oblivion on Oct 31, 2005 2:28:33 GMT -5
"Thou Art God" -- Valentine Michael Smith
;D
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